RE: order of covariate inclusion -> avoiding stepwise approaches -> abandoning exploratory analysis?

From: Tgordi Date: September 29, 2003 technical Source: cognigencorp.com
From: tgordi@buffalo.edu Subject: RE: [NMusers] order of covariate inclusion -> avoiding stepwise approaches -> abandoning exploratory analysis? Date: 9/29/2003 11:00 AM Hi! I am not as much experienced with NONMEM (or statistics) as many of the contributors but I guess there are a couple of simple rules one can follow with regard to inclusion of covariates in any model. The first is, of course, just consider those covariates that are of interest. What is of interest might differ from case to case. If it is a exploratory study, one might want to look at many parameters. If one want a more "practical" model, weight and gender might be enough (just examples). A lot of information can be collected in a clinical study but not all of it will be or should be tested. The second simple rule is that the more tests one does, the higher is the risk of finding something that is not there (as Ken mentions below). Although there probably are several methods to deal with the situation, one simple approach would be to decrease the level of significance, let's say use 0.001 instead of 0.05, for a covariate to be deemed influential. What value to choose will be dependent on the number of tests you do, although there are some variations of the rule, which are less conservative. The negative side is, of course, that there will be more difficult to show any significance. However, this might function as a driving force to choose the best candidates only. I understand that this is not the answer to all of the problems but I would say that following these rules helps one to be less "wrong" in the analysis. This discussion also brings me to another issue I have been thinking about. If we agree that conducting several tests lead to inflated TYPE I error, what are the consequences when several different structural models are tried in our routine PK/PD modeling? It is a common practice to accept a drop of 3.8 in the OFV (which is related to a significance level of 0.05) as a "proof" of the superiority of a model over another. My point is not whether using OFV is optimal. The question is whether one should be more restrictive and use 0.01 or even less. Toufigh Gordi
Sep 25, 2003 Peter Bonate order of covariate inclusion
Sep 25, 2003 Leonid Gibiansky Re: order of covariate inclusion
Sep 25, 2003 Peter Bonate Re: order of covariate inclusion
Sep 25, 2003 Leonid Gibiansky Re: order of covariate inclusion
Sep 25, 2003 Harry Mager Hm Re: order of covariate inclusion
Sep 25, 2003 William Bachman RE: Re: order of covariate inclusion
Sep 25, 2003 Leonid Gibiansky RE: Re: order of covariate inclusion
Sep 25, 2003 Peter Bonate RE: Re: order of covariate inclusion
Sep 25, 2003 Kenneth Kowalski RE: order of covariate inclusion
Sep 25, 2003 Alan Xiao RE: Re: order of covariate inclusion
Sep 25, 2003 Leonid Gibiansky Re: order of covariate inclusion
Sep 25, 2003 Kenneth Kowalski RE: order of covariate inclusion
Sep 25, 2003 Sduffull RE: order of covariate inclusion
Sep 25, 2003 Marc Gastonguay RE: order of covariate inclusion -> avoiding stepwise approaches
Sep 26, 2003 Gary Maier RE: order of covariate inclusion -> avoiding stepwise approaches
Sep 26, 2003 Marc Gastonguay RE: order of covariate inclusion -> avoiding stepwise approaches
Sep 26, 2003 William Bachman RE: order of covariate inclusion -> avoiding stepwise approaches -> abandoning exploratory analysis?
Sep 26, 2003 Jakob Ribbing RE: order of covariate inclusion -> avoiding stepwise approaches
Sep 26, 2003 Mark Sale RE: order of covariate inclusion -> avoiding stepwise approaches
Sep 26, 2003 Chuanpu 2 Hu RE: order of covariate inclusion -> avoiding stepwise a pproaches -> abandoning exploratory analysis?
Sep 26, 2003 Kenneth Kowalski RE: order of covariate inclusion -> avoiding stepwise approaches
Sep 26, 2003 Kenneth Kowalski RE: order of covariate inclusion -> avoiding stepwise approaches -> abandoning exploratory analysis?
Sep 26, 2003 William Bachman RE: order of covariate inclusion -> avoiding stepwise approaches -> abandoning exploratory analysis?
Sep 26, 2003 Marc Gastonguay RE: order of covariate inclusion -> avoiding stepwise approaches -> abandoning exploratory analysis?
Sep 26, 2003 Kenneth Kowalski RE: order of covariate inclusion -> avoiding stepwise approaches -> abandoning exploratory analysis?
Sep 26, 2003 William Bachman RE: order of covariate inclusion -> avoiding stepwise approaches -> abandoning exploratory analysis?
Sep 26, 2003 Mark Sale RE: order of covariate inclusion -> avoiding stepwise approaches -> abandoning exploratory analysis?
Sep 26, 2003 Marc Gastonguay RE: order of covariate inclusion -> avoiding stepwise approaches -> abandoning exploratory analysis?
Sep 26, 2003 David Garbutt RE: order of covariate inclusion -> avoiding stepwise approaches -> abandoning exploratory analysis?
Sep 26, 2003 Leonid Gibiansky RE: order of covariate inclusion -> avoiding stepwise approaches -> abandoning exploratory analysis?
Sep 26, 2003 Mark Sale RE: order of covariate inclusion -> avoiding stepwise approaches -> abandoning exploratory analysis?
Sep 26, 2003 Marc Gastonguay RE: order of covariate inclusion -> avoiding stepwise approaches -> abandoning exploratory analysis?
Sep 26, 2003 Sduffull RE: order of covariate inclusion -> avoiding stepwise a pproaches -> abandoning exploratory analysis?
Sep 27, 2003 Marc Gastonguay RE: order of covariate inclusion -> avoiding stepwise approaches -> abandoning exploratory analysis?
Sep 29, 2003 Mark Sale RE: order of covariate inclusion -> avoiding stepwise approaches -> abandoning exploratory analysis?
Sep 29, 2003 Harry Mager Hm RE: order of covariate inclusion -> avoiding stepwise approaches -> abandoning exploratory analysis?
Sep 29, 2003 Kenneth Kowalski RE: order of covariate inclusion -> avoiding stepwise approaches -> abandoning exploratory analysis?
Sep 29, 2003 Tgordi RE: order of covariate inclusion -> avoiding stepwise approaches -> abandoning exploratory analysis?
Sep 29, 2003 Leonid Gibiansky RE: order of covariate inclusion -> avoiding stepwise a pproaches -> abandoning exploratory analysis?
Sep 29, 2003 Guzy RE: order of covariate inclusion -> avoiding stepwise a pproaches -> abandoning exploratory analysis?
Sep 29, 2003 Mark Sale RE: order of covariate inclusion -> avoiding stepwise a pproaches -> abandoning exploratory analysis?
Sep 29, 2003 Kenneth Kowalski RE: order of covariate inclusion -> avoiding stepwise a pproaches -> abandoning exploratory analysis?