RE: order of covariate inclusion -> avoiding stepwise approaches

From: Marc Gastonguay Date: September 25, 2003 technical Source: cognigencorp.com
From: marc.gastonguay@snet.net Subject: RE: [NMusers] order of covariate inclusion -> avoiding stepwise approaches Date: 9/25/2003 9:10 PM Dear Pete, Leonid, Ken & others, At the risk of complicating this already controversial topic, I'll throw my two cents in... For all the reasons that Ken metioned and more, I think we should be very careful with stepwise approaches (see this website for more reasons "Why stepwise regression is dumb": http://cvu.strath.ac.uk/HyperNews/get/guss-fprt/9.html). Anyway, I've been thinking about this for a while and I'm not sure that we should even bother with stepwise covariate model building. We typically go through this exercise to identify "statistically significant" covariates and the most parsimonious model. When interpreting the modeling results, we usually examine the "significant" covariate effects and make some judgement about the clinical relevance of those covariates, usually explaining away those statistically significant effects that do not produce a clinically relevant change in the parameter(s). We also often state that covariate effects that were not statistically significant have no effect on the parameter in question (which is not entirely accurate). Shouldn't we just focus on clinical relevance and forget about significance of covariate effects? After all, the methods we use to assess significance with the Likelihood ratio test are usually wrong (1 - 3) and inappropriate (due to the multiple comparisons and retrospective nature of the analysis). Let's consider an approach where one builds a full covariate model based on prior scientific knowledge, or particular interest in a set of covariates. This full model must be carefully & thoughtfully constructed to avoid highly correlated/colinear covariates, but it is quite possible to create such a model that will still converge. Inference based on this full model is conducted not via stepwise regression and the likelihood ratio test, but by estimating model parameters and a measure of their uncertainty (bootstrap 95% confidence intervals, for example). The expected clinical impact of covariate effects are then evaluated given the parameter estimates and the uncertainties around these estimates. In addition, conclusions about covariates that had relatively little impact on model parameters can be made with some understanding of how precisely these small ("insignificant") effects were estimated. So instead of saying that a covariate has no effect on a model parameter, one can assess if the lack of effect is actually due to the lack of a relationship, or if the finding is due to insufficient data. I've also read that this full model approach leads to standard errors that are more accurate than a stepwise regression approach, which results in overly optimisitic standard errors (4). The other benefit of this approach is that once the full model has been developed, computations are spent on getting estimates of parameter precision (bootstrap) rather than a lengthy stepwise regression process. Of course there are some practical challenges with this idea, and I have to admit that I still routinely use stepwise backward elimination from a full model as the primary covariate model building tool. I'm working on building a set of case studies to convince myself that the full model/bootstrap approach is sound. Thanks in advance for your thoughts. Marc Gastonguay References: (1) Wahlby U, Jonsson EN, Karlsson MO. Assessment of actual significance levels for covariate effects in NONMEM. J Pharmacokinet Pharmacodyn 2001; 28(3):231-252. (2) Wahlby U, Bouw MR, Jonsson EN, Karlsson MO. Assessment of type I error rates for the statistical sub-model in NONMEM. J Pharmacokinet Pharmacodyn 2002; 29(3):251-269. (3) Gobburu JV, Lawrence J. Application of resampling techniques to estimate exact significance levels for covariate selection during nonlinear mixed effects model building: some inferences. Pharm Res 2002; 19(1):92-98. (4) Altman, D. G. and P. K. Andersen. 1989. Bootstrap investigation of the stability of a Cox regression model. Statistics in Medicine 8: 771-783
Sep 25, 2003 Peter Bonate order of covariate inclusion
Sep 25, 2003 Leonid Gibiansky Re: order of covariate inclusion
Sep 25, 2003 Peter Bonate Re: order of covariate inclusion
Sep 25, 2003 Leonid Gibiansky Re: order of covariate inclusion
Sep 25, 2003 Harry Mager Hm Re: order of covariate inclusion
Sep 25, 2003 William Bachman RE: Re: order of covariate inclusion
Sep 25, 2003 Leonid Gibiansky RE: Re: order of covariate inclusion
Sep 25, 2003 Peter Bonate RE: Re: order of covariate inclusion
Sep 25, 2003 Kenneth Kowalski RE: order of covariate inclusion
Sep 25, 2003 Alan Xiao RE: Re: order of covariate inclusion
Sep 25, 2003 Leonid Gibiansky Re: order of covariate inclusion
Sep 25, 2003 Kenneth Kowalski RE: order of covariate inclusion
Sep 25, 2003 Sduffull RE: order of covariate inclusion
Sep 25, 2003 Marc Gastonguay RE: order of covariate inclusion -> avoiding stepwise approaches
Sep 26, 2003 Gary Maier RE: order of covariate inclusion -> avoiding stepwise approaches
Sep 26, 2003 Marc Gastonguay RE: order of covariate inclusion -> avoiding stepwise approaches
Sep 26, 2003 William Bachman RE: order of covariate inclusion -> avoiding stepwise approaches -> abandoning exploratory analysis?
Sep 26, 2003 Jakob Ribbing RE: order of covariate inclusion -> avoiding stepwise approaches
Sep 26, 2003 Mark Sale RE: order of covariate inclusion -> avoiding stepwise approaches
Sep 26, 2003 Chuanpu 2 Hu RE: order of covariate inclusion -> avoiding stepwise a pproaches -> abandoning exploratory analysis?
Sep 26, 2003 Kenneth Kowalski RE: order of covariate inclusion -> avoiding stepwise approaches
Sep 26, 2003 Kenneth Kowalski RE: order of covariate inclusion -> avoiding stepwise approaches -> abandoning exploratory analysis?
Sep 26, 2003 William Bachman RE: order of covariate inclusion -> avoiding stepwise approaches -> abandoning exploratory analysis?
Sep 26, 2003 Marc Gastonguay RE: order of covariate inclusion -> avoiding stepwise approaches -> abandoning exploratory analysis?
Sep 26, 2003 Kenneth Kowalski RE: order of covariate inclusion -> avoiding stepwise approaches -> abandoning exploratory analysis?
Sep 26, 2003 William Bachman RE: order of covariate inclusion -> avoiding stepwise approaches -> abandoning exploratory analysis?
Sep 26, 2003 Mark Sale RE: order of covariate inclusion -> avoiding stepwise approaches -> abandoning exploratory analysis?
Sep 26, 2003 Marc Gastonguay RE: order of covariate inclusion -> avoiding stepwise approaches -> abandoning exploratory analysis?
Sep 26, 2003 David Garbutt RE: order of covariate inclusion -> avoiding stepwise approaches -> abandoning exploratory analysis?
Sep 26, 2003 Leonid Gibiansky RE: order of covariate inclusion -> avoiding stepwise approaches -> abandoning exploratory analysis?
Sep 26, 2003 Mark Sale RE: order of covariate inclusion -> avoiding stepwise approaches -> abandoning exploratory analysis?
Sep 26, 2003 Marc Gastonguay RE: order of covariate inclusion -> avoiding stepwise approaches -> abandoning exploratory analysis?
Sep 26, 2003 Sduffull RE: order of covariate inclusion -> avoiding stepwise a pproaches -> abandoning exploratory analysis?
Sep 27, 2003 Marc Gastonguay RE: order of covariate inclusion -> avoiding stepwise approaches -> abandoning exploratory analysis?
Sep 29, 2003 Mark Sale RE: order of covariate inclusion -> avoiding stepwise approaches -> abandoning exploratory analysis?
Sep 29, 2003 Harry Mager Hm RE: order of covariate inclusion -> avoiding stepwise approaches -> abandoning exploratory analysis?
Sep 29, 2003 Kenneth Kowalski RE: order of covariate inclusion -> avoiding stepwise approaches -> abandoning exploratory analysis?
Sep 29, 2003 Tgordi RE: order of covariate inclusion -> avoiding stepwise approaches -> abandoning exploratory analysis?
Sep 29, 2003 Leonid Gibiansky RE: order of covariate inclusion -> avoiding stepwise a pproaches -> abandoning exploratory analysis?
Sep 29, 2003 Guzy RE: order of covariate inclusion -> avoiding stepwise a pproaches -> abandoning exploratory analysis?
Sep 29, 2003 Mark Sale RE: order of covariate inclusion -> avoiding stepwise a pproaches -> abandoning exploratory analysis?
Sep 29, 2003 Kenneth Kowalski RE: order of covariate inclusion -> avoiding stepwise a pproaches -> abandoning exploratory analysis?