RE: order of covariate inclusion -> avoiding stepwise approaches

From: Jakob Ribbing Date: September 26, 2003 technical Source: cognigencorp.com
From: Jakob.Ribbing@farmbio.uu.se Subject: RE: [NMusers] order of covariate inclusion -> avoiding stepwise approaches Date: 9/26/2003 9:33 AM Dear all, A few comments on the recent discussion on stepwise covariate modelling. We have just submitted a paper (Jakob Ribbing and E. Niclas Jonsson, Power, Selection Bias and Predictive Performance of the Population Pharmacokinetic Covariate Model) on a simulation study that investigates the effects of stepwise covariate modelling and in short the conclusions relevant to what has been discussed on NMusers are: 1. Stepwise comparison should NOT be performed on a SMALL DATASET (? 50 subjects) if the purpose is predictive modelling: 1. Weak covariates are heavily biased when selected based on a statistical criterion. Selection bias is caused by the selection procedure used and is not due to the estimation method used. 2. Because of the heavy selection bias a weak covariate could be expected to worsen the predictive performance if selected 3. A weak and clinically insignificant covariate cannot be separated from a clinically significant covariate because of this selection bias. Thus, the covariates which are statistically significant will also most often appear clinically significant even if they arent! 4. Bias correction or other selection criteria than the p-value may allow stepwise regression even on small datasets. 2. Testing correlated covariates for inclusion in the model is not harming the predictive performance of the final model. However, a large dataset is required in order to select, with enough certainty, the better of two highly correlated covariates. To connect to what was said by Marc on this topic, I do agree to that requiring statistical significance of covariates SOMETIMES can be harmful and contra productive if the purpose is predictive modelling. However, even in these cases stepwise regression could be useful for hypothesis generation. Marc suggested selecting the covariate model based purely on prior knowledge, regardless of statistical significance in the dataset analyzed, to estimate the covariate-model parameters. On the other hand, this prior knowledge can be partly elicited from stepwise covariate modelling on a prior dataset. This is an appealing strategy that we will compare to others in a current simulation study, but no results from this are available yet. Best regards, Jakob Jakob Ribbing, MSc Division of Pharmacokinetics and Drug Therapy Department of Pharmaceutical Biosciences Uppsala University Box 591 SE-751 24 Uppsala SWEDEN Phone: +46 18 471 44 37 Mobile phone: +46 70 450 33 77 Fax: +46 18 471 40 03 Email: jakob.ribbing@farmbio.uu.se
Sep 25, 2003 Peter Bonate order of covariate inclusion
Sep 25, 2003 Leonid Gibiansky Re: order of covariate inclusion
Sep 25, 2003 Peter Bonate Re: order of covariate inclusion
Sep 25, 2003 Leonid Gibiansky Re: order of covariate inclusion
Sep 25, 2003 Harry Mager Hm Re: order of covariate inclusion
Sep 25, 2003 William Bachman RE: Re: order of covariate inclusion
Sep 25, 2003 Leonid Gibiansky RE: Re: order of covariate inclusion
Sep 25, 2003 Peter Bonate RE: Re: order of covariate inclusion
Sep 25, 2003 Kenneth Kowalski RE: order of covariate inclusion
Sep 25, 2003 Alan Xiao RE: Re: order of covariate inclusion
Sep 25, 2003 Leonid Gibiansky Re: order of covariate inclusion
Sep 25, 2003 Kenneth Kowalski RE: order of covariate inclusion
Sep 25, 2003 Sduffull RE: order of covariate inclusion
Sep 25, 2003 Marc Gastonguay RE: order of covariate inclusion -> avoiding stepwise approaches
Sep 26, 2003 Gary Maier RE: order of covariate inclusion -> avoiding stepwise approaches
Sep 26, 2003 Marc Gastonguay RE: order of covariate inclusion -> avoiding stepwise approaches
Sep 26, 2003 William Bachman RE: order of covariate inclusion -> avoiding stepwise approaches -> abandoning exploratory analysis?
Sep 26, 2003 Jakob Ribbing RE: order of covariate inclusion -> avoiding stepwise approaches
Sep 26, 2003 Mark Sale RE: order of covariate inclusion -> avoiding stepwise approaches
Sep 26, 2003 Chuanpu 2 Hu RE: order of covariate inclusion -> avoiding stepwise a pproaches -> abandoning exploratory analysis?
Sep 26, 2003 Kenneth Kowalski RE: order of covariate inclusion -> avoiding stepwise approaches
Sep 26, 2003 Kenneth Kowalski RE: order of covariate inclusion -> avoiding stepwise approaches -> abandoning exploratory analysis?
Sep 26, 2003 William Bachman RE: order of covariate inclusion -> avoiding stepwise approaches -> abandoning exploratory analysis?
Sep 26, 2003 Marc Gastonguay RE: order of covariate inclusion -> avoiding stepwise approaches -> abandoning exploratory analysis?
Sep 26, 2003 Kenneth Kowalski RE: order of covariate inclusion -> avoiding stepwise approaches -> abandoning exploratory analysis?
Sep 26, 2003 William Bachman RE: order of covariate inclusion -> avoiding stepwise approaches -> abandoning exploratory analysis?
Sep 26, 2003 Mark Sale RE: order of covariate inclusion -> avoiding stepwise approaches -> abandoning exploratory analysis?
Sep 26, 2003 Marc Gastonguay RE: order of covariate inclusion -> avoiding stepwise approaches -> abandoning exploratory analysis?
Sep 26, 2003 David Garbutt RE: order of covariate inclusion -> avoiding stepwise approaches -> abandoning exploratory analysis?
Sep 26, 2003 Leonid Gibiansky RE: order of covariate inclusion -> avoiding stepwise approaches -> abandoning exploratory analysis?
Sep 26, 2003 Mark Sale RE: order of covariate inclusion -> avoiding stepwise approaches -> abandoning exploratory analysis?
Sep 26, 2003 Marc Gastonguay RE: order of covariate inclusion -> avoiding stepwise approaches -> abandoning exploratory analysis?
Sep 26, 2003 Sduffull RE: order of covariate inclusion -> avoiding stepwise a pproaches -> abandoning exploratory analysis?
Sep 27, 2003 Marc Gastonguay RE: order of covariate inclusion -> avoiding stepwise approaches -> abandoning exploratory analysis?
Sep 29, 2003 Mark Sale RE: order of covariate inclusion -> avoiding stepwise approaches -> abandoning exploratory analysis?
Sep 29, 2003 Harry Mager Hm RE: order of covariate inclusion -> avoiding stepwise approaches -> abandoning exploratory analysis?
Sep 29, 2003 Kenneth Kowalski RE: order of covariate inclusion -> avoiding stepwise approaches -> abandoning exploratory analysis?
Sep 29, 2003 Tgordi RE: order of covariate inclusion -> avoiding stepwise approaches -> abandoning exploratory analysis?
Sep 29, 2003 Leonid Gibiansky RE: order of covariate inclusion -> avoiding stepwise a pproaches -> abandoning exploratory analysis?
Sep 29, 2003 Guzy RE: order of covariate inclusion -> avoiding stepwise a pproaches -> abandoning exploratory analysis?
Sep 29, 2003 Mark Sale RE: order of covariate inclusion -> avoiding stepwise a pproaches -> abandoning exploratory analysis?
Sep 29, 2003 Kenneth Kowalski RE: order of covariate inclusion -> avoiding stepwise a pproaches -> abandoning exploratory analysis?