RE: Confidence intervals of PsN bootstrap output

From: Matt Hutmacher Date: July 12, 2011 technical Source: mail-archive.com
Hi Jakob, I agree that in the well-defined cases that reparameterization will not matter since maximum likelihood is invariant under certain types of transformation - your bootstrap distribution would be the same. For the marginal dataset cases (for any dataset bootstrap or otherwise) transformation will help convergence and COV step estimation by helping with boundary problems and reducing intrinsic nonlinearity. For pathological cases such as those in which a few individuals contain information to estimate key parameters or when there are certain types of outlying individuals, one should consider the accuracy of the bootstrap estimate. Just my opinion. Best Regards, Matt
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From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ribbing, Jakob Sent: Monday, July 11, 2011 7:43 PM To: nmusers Cc: Matt Hutmacher Subject: RE: [NMusers] Confidence intervals of PsN bootstrap output Hi Matt, OK, I can certainly see that transformations will be helpful in bootstrapping; for those persons that throw away samples with unsuccessful termination or cov step. They would otherwise discard all bootstrap estimates that indicate Emax is close to zero. Since I most often use all bootstrap samples that terminate at a minimum I guess in practice I would virtually have the same distribution of Emax, regardless of transformation or not? I fully agree transformations are useful to get convergence and successful covstep on the original dataset (and I tend to keep the same transformation when bootstrapping, but only for simplicity). However, I sometimes use the bootstrap results to which parameters should be transformed in the first place. From what I have seen, bootstrapping the transformed model again has never changed the (non-parametric bootstrap) distribution when boundaries were the same (e.g. both models bound to positive values of Emax). Cheers Jakob -----Original Message----- From: Matt Hutmacher [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 11 July 2011 17:39 To: Ribbing, Jakob; 'nmusers' Subject: RE: [NMusers] Confidence intervals of PsN bootstrap output Hi Jakob, "The 15% bootstrap samples where data suggest a negative drug effect would in one case terminate at the zero boundary, in the other case it would terminate (often unsuccessfully) at highly negative values for log Emax"... I have seen that transformation can make the likelihood surface more stable. In my experience, when runs terminate using ordinary Emax parameterization with 0 lower bounds (note that NONMEM is using a transformation behind the scenes to avoid constrained optimization), you can avoid termination and even get the $COV to run with different parameterizations. The estimate might be quite negative as you suggest, but I have seen it recovered. Also, I have seen termination avoided and COV achieved with Emax=EXP(THETA(X)) and EC50=EXP(THETA(Y)) when EC50 and EMAX becomes large. I have seen variance components that can be estimated in this way but not with traditional $OMEGA implementation. Best, matt
Jul 05, 2011 Norman Z Confidence intervals of PsN bootstrap output
Jul 05, 2011 Jakob Ribbing Re: Confidence intervals of PsN bootstrap output
Jul 06, 2011 Norman Z Re: Confidence intervals of PsN bootstrap output
Jul 06, 2011 Justin Wilkins Re: Confidence intervals of PsN bootstrap output
Jul 08, 2011 Jakob Ribbing RE: Confidence intervals of PsN bootstrap output
Jul 09, 2011 Jakob Ribbing RE: Confidence intervals of PsN bootstrap output
Jul 09, 2011 Nick Holford Re: Confidence intervals of PsN bootstrap output
Jul 09, 2011 Marc Gastonguay Re: Confidence intervals of PsN bootstrap output
Jul 10, 2011 Stephen Duffull RE: Confidence intervals of PsN bootstrap output
Jul 10, 2011 Leonid Gibiansky Re: Confidence intervals of PsN bootstrap output
Jul 11, 2011 Nick Holford Re: Confidence intervals of PsN bootstrap output
Jul 11, 2011 Justin Wilkins Re: Confidence intervals of PsN bootstrap output
Jul 11, 2011 Mats Karlsson RE: Confidence intervals of PsN bootstrap output
Jul 11, 2011 Jakob Ribbing RE: Confidence intervals of PsN bootstrap output
Jul 11, 2011 Matt Hutmacher RE: Confidence intervals of PsN bootstrap output
Jul 11, 2011 Leonid Gibiansky Re: Confidence intervals of PsN bootstrap output
Jul 11, 2011 Stephen Duffull RE: Confidence intervals of PsN bootstrap output
Jul 12, 2011 Jakob Ribbing RE: Confidence intervals of PsN bootstrap output
Jul 12, 2011 Matt Hutmacher RE: Confidence intervals of PsN bootstrap output