RE: Confidence intervals of PsN bootstrap output

From: Jakob Ribbing Date: July 12, 2011 technical Source: mail-archive.com
Hi Matt, OK, I can certainly see that transformations will be helpful in bootstrapping; for those persons that throw away samples with unsuccessful termination or cov step. They would otherwise discard all bootstrap estimates that indicate Emax is close to zero. Since I most often use all bootstrap samples that terminate at a minimum I guess in practice I would virtually have the same distribution of Emax, regardless of transformation or not? I fully agree transformations are useful to get convergence and successful covstep on the original dataset (and I tend to keep the same transformation when bootstrapping, but only for simplicity). However, I sometimes use the bootstrap results to which parameters should be transformed in the first place. From what I have seen, bootstrapping the transformed model again has never changed the (non-parametric bootstrap) distribution when boundaries were the same (e.g. both models bound to positive values of Emax). Cheers Jakob
Quoted reply history
-----Original Message----- From: Matt Hutmacher [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 11 July 2011 17:39 To: Ribbing, Jakob; 'nmusers' Subject: RE: [NMusers] Confidence intervals of PsN bootstrap output Hi Jakob, "The 15% bootstrap samples where data suggest a negative drug effect would in one case terminate at the zero boundary, in the other case it would terminate (often unsuccessfully) at highly negative values for log Emax"... I have seen that transformation can make the likelihood surface more stable. In my experience, when runs terminate using ordinary Emax parameterization with 0 lower bounds (note that NONMEM is using a transformation behind the scenes to avoid constrained optimization), you can avoid termination and even get the $COV to run with different parameterizations. The estimate might be quite negative as you suggest, but I have seen it recovered. Also, I have seen termination avoided and COV achieved with Emax=EXP(THETA(X)) and EC50=EXP(THETA(Y)) when EC50 and EMAX becomes large. I have seen variance components that can be estimated in this way but not with traditional $OMEGA implementation. Best, matt
Jul 05, 2011 Norman Z Confidence intervals of PsN bootstrap output
Jul 05, 2011 Jakob Ribbing Re: Confidence intervals of PsN bootstrap output
Jul 06, 2011 Norman Z Re: Confidence intervals of PsN bootstrap output
Jul 06, 2011 Justin Wilkins Re: Confidence intervals of PsN bootstrap output
Jul 08, 2011 Jakob Ribbing RE: Confidence intervals of PsN bootstrap output
Jul 09, 2011 Jakob Ribbing RE: Confidence intervals of PsN bootstrap output
Jul 09, 2011 Nick Holford Re: Confidence intervals of PsN bootstrap output
Jul 09, 2011 Marc Gastonguay Re: Confidence intervals of PsN bootstrap output
Jul 10, 2011 Stephen Duffull RE: Confidence intervals of PsN bootstrap output
Jul 10, 2011 Leonid Gibiansky Re: Confidence intervals of PsN bootstrap output
Jul 11, 2011 Nick Holford Re: Confidence intervals of PsN bootstrap output
Jul 11, 2011 Justin Wilkins Re: Confidence intervals of PsN bootstrap output
Jul 11, 2011 Mats Karlsson RE: Confidence intervals of PsN bootstrap output
Jul 11, 2011 Jakob Ribbing RE: Confidence intervals of PsN bootstrap output
Jul 11, 2011 Matt Hutmacher RE: Confidence intervals of PsN bootstrap output
Jul 11, 2011 Leonid Gibiansky Re: Confidence intervals of PsN bootstrap output
Jul 11, 2011 Stephen Duffull RE: Confidence intervals of PsN bootstrap output
Jul 12, 2011 Jakob Ribbing RE: Confidence intervals of PsN bootstrap output
Jul 12, 2011 Matt Hutmacher RE: Confidence intervals of PsN bootstrap output