Re: Confidence intervals of PsN bootstrap output

From: Marc Gastonguay Date: July 09, 2011 technical Source: mail-archive.com
Nick, Jakob, nmusers: At the risk of re-opening an old discussion, I'd like to expand on Nick's important point. From our experience the experience of others, including parameters from all bootstrap runs that report parameter estimates, regardless of minimization of $COV status, is a reasonable thing to do; provided that the modeler conducts a careful and thoughtful evaluation of the model and bootstrap results. One goal should be to understand why minimization, $COV, or boundary problems occur. For example, it is useful to create histograms and a scatterplot matrix of the resulting bootstrap parameter distributions, flagging those runs with minimization problems. Most of the time, these problematic runs represent the tails of the distribution for a less precisely defined parameter. Sometimes the boundary message is just a reflection of the tail of a bootstrap parameter distribution approaching the null value for that parameter. All of these runs are informative about the estimation precision and should be included. This is not always the case, however. In fact, even successful minimization and $COV do not guarantee that the resulting parameter estimates should be included in bootstrap confidence intervals. For example, bootstrapping is often a useful way to identify models with more than 1 unique solution (e.g. flip-flop in PK rate constants). In addition, some runs may represent a local minimum. Another problem can arise if the bootstrap resampling is not stratified on the major covariate(s) or design features of the original data set (e.g. pooled analyses of adult studies and pediatric studies, or pooled analyses of sparsely sampled and extensively sampled studies). In all of these cases, the histograms and scatterplot matrices may reveal a multimodal "posterior" bootstrap distribution for some of the parameters, which should be addressed before using bootstrap results for inferential or simulation purposes. Obviously, it's important for the modeler to think about the problem and to understand what the results mean. Blindly accepting or rejecting runs based on a software warning message, or on another scientist's R script, is not advisable. Best regards, Marc Marc R. Gastonguay, Ph.D. ([email protected]) President & CEO, Metrum Research Group LLC (metrumrg.com) Scientific Director, Metrum Institute (metruminstitute.org)
Quoted reply history
On Saturday, July 9, 2011 at 9:14 AM, Nick Holford wrote: > Jakob, > > Thanks for your helpful comments. I agree with you that any results that > are at a boundary should be discarded from the bootstrap distribution. > > Although you say you do not wish to re-open the discussion, there is > evidence that discarding other non-successful runs makes no difference > to the parameter distribution (Gastonguay & El-Tahtawy 2005, Holford et > al. 2006) and also makes no difference to model selection results when > estimating from simulated data (Byon et al 2008, Ahn et al 2008). While > these conclusions may be controversial it is a controversy with evidence > only on the side of those who say all bootstrap results may be used to > describe the distribution versus speculation from those who say they > should be discarded. Perhaps there is some new evidence from the > speculators that could further enlighten the discussion? > > Nick > > > Gastonguay G, El-Tahtawy A. Minimization status had minimal impact on > the resulting BS [bootstrap] parameter distributions > http://metrumrg.com/publications/Gastonguay.BSMin.ASCPT2005.pdf In: > ASCPT, 2005. > Holford NHG, Kirkpatrick C, Duffull S. NONMEM Termination Status is Not > an Important Indicator of the Quality of Bootstrap Parameter Estimates > http://www.page-meeting.org/default.asp?abstract=992. In: PAGE, Bruges, > 2006. > Byon W, Fletcher CV, Brundage RC. Impact of censoring data below an > arbitrary quantification limit on structural model misspecification. J > Pharmacokinet Pharmacodyn. 2008;35(1):101-16. > Ahn JE, Karlsson MO, Dunne A, Ludden TM. Likelihood based approaches to > handling data below the quantification limit using NONMEM VI. J > Pharmacokinet Pharmacodyn. 2008;35(4):401-21. >
Jul 05, 2011 Norman Z Confidence intervals of PsN bootstrap output
Jul 05, 2011 Jakob Ribbing Re: Confidence intervals of PsN bootstrap output
Jul 06, 2011 Norman Z Re: Confidence intervals of PsN bootstrap output
Jul 06, 2011 Justin Wilkins Re: Confidence intervals of PsN bootstrap output
Jul 08, 2011 Jakob Ribbing RE: Confidence intervals of PsN bootstrap output
Jul 09, 2011 Jakob Ribbing RE: Confidence intervals of PsN bootstrap output
Jul 09, 2011 Nick Holford Re: Confidence intervals of PsN bootstrap output
Jul 09, 2011 Marc Gastonguay Re: Confidence intervals of PsN bootstrap output
Jul 10, 2011 Stephen Duffull RE: Confidence intervals of PsN bootstrap output
Jul 10, 2011 Leonid Gibiansky Re: Confidence intervals of PsN bootstrap output
Jul 11, 2011 Nick Holford Re: Confidence intervals of PsN bootstrap output
Jul 11, 2011 Justin Wilkins Re: Confidence intervals of PsN bootstrap output
Jul 11, 2011 Mats Karlsson RE: Confidence intervals of PsN bootstrap output
Jul 11, 2011 Jakob Ribbing RE: Confidence intervals of PsN bootstrap output
Jul 11, 2011 Matt Hutmacher RE: Confidence intervals of PsN bootstrap output
Jul 11, 2011 Leonid Gibiansky Re: Confidence intervals of PsN bootstrap output
Jul 11, 2011 Stephen Duffull RE: Confidence intervals of PsN bootstrap output
Jul 12, 2011 Jakob Ribbing RE: Confidence intervals of PsN bootstrap output
Jul 12, 2011 Matt Hutmacher RE: Confidence intervals of PsN bootstrap output