RE: Reporting Modeling Results

From: Jeroen Elassaiss-Schaap Date: October 25, 2007 technical Source: mail-archive.com
Hi Leonid, The aspect of the results that John describes as being dependent on scaling are the (bootstrap) confidence intervals, not the parameter estimates. I actually agree with John's original statements about not being surprised by the inflated standard errors when the model is not centered. Removal of normalization induces covariance in the estimation of affected parameters. This covariance naturally leeds to inflated standard errors (w/o bootstrapping). And as we all know, high correlation between parameters can result in matrix singularity and consequently failing covariance steps, consistent with John's statements. Best regards, Jeroen J. Elassaiss-Schaap Scientist PK/PD Organon NV PO Box 20, 5340 BH Oss, Netherlands Phone: + 31 412 66 9320 Fax: + 31 412 66 2506 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Quoted reply history
-----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Leonid Gibiansky Sent: Thursday, 25 October, 2007 23:30 To: John Mondick Cc: [email protected] Subject: Re: [NMusers] Reporting Modeling Results Hi John, The code seems to be good, and the results, in my opinion, should not depend on scaling. One idea: if you started both sets of problems (with and without scaling) from the same initial conditions (while the solutions differ by factor 5 or so), nonmem could have difficulties finding the correct minimum when started far from optimum. If your initial conditions were coming from 10.4 kg-normalized solution, then it could explain wider CI for the non-normalized problem: some of those runs did not converged or converged to a local minima. If this is true, you may want to repeat the non-normalized set with the initial conditions closer to the solution (if you choose to use non-normalized problem as the final model). Leonid -------------------------------------- Leonid Gibiansky, Ph.D. President, QuantPharm LLC web: www.quantpharm.com e-mail: LGibiansky at quantpharm.com tel: (301) 767 5566 John Mondick wrote: > > > $PK > > TVCL = THETA(1)*(WT/10.4)**0.75 > BETA = THETA(5) > TCL = THETA(6) > FCL = 1-BETA*EXP(-(AGE-1)*0.693/TCL) > TVCL2 = TVCL*FCL > CL = TVCL2*EXP(ETA(1)) > > TVV1 = THETA(2)*(WT/10.4) > V1 = TVV1*EXP(ETA(2)) > > TVV2 = THETA(3)*(WT/10.4) > V2 = TVV2*EXP(ETA(3)) > > TVQ = THETA(4)*(WT/10.4)**0.75 > Q = TVQ > This message, including the attachments, is confidential and may be privileged. If you are not an intended recipient, please notify the sender then delete and destroy the original message and all copies. You should not copy, forward and/or disclose this message, in whole or in part, without permission of the sender.
Oct 24, 2007 John Mondick Reporting Modeling Results
Oct 24, 2007 Alan Xiao RE: Reporting Modeling Results
Oct 24, 2007 Leonid Gibiansky Re: Reporting Modeling Results
Oct 25, 2007 Nick Holford Re: Reporting Modeling Results
Oct 25, 2007 Mark Sale RE: Reporting Modeling Results
Oct 25, 2007 Alan Xiao RE: Reporting Modeling Results
Oct 25, 2007 John Mondick Re: Reporting Modeling Results
Oct 25, 2007 Leonid Gibiansky Re: Reporting Modeling Results
Oct 25, 2007 Jeroen Elassaiss-Schaap RE: Reporting Modeling Results
Oct 25, 2007 Stephen Duffull RE: Reporting Modeling Results
Oct 26, 2007 Mark Sale RE: Reporting Modeling Results
Oct 26, 2007 Leonid Gibiansky Re: Reporting Modeling Results
Oct 26, 2007 Jeroen Elassaiss-Schaap RE: Reporting Modeling Results
Oct 26, 2007 James G Wright RE: Reporting Modeling Results
Oct 26, 2007 Alan Xiao RE: Reporting Modeling Results
Oct 26, 2007 Stephen Duffull RE: Reporting Modeling Results
Oct 26, 2007 Nick Holford Re: Reporting Modeling Results
Oct 27, 2007 Bruce Green RE: Reporting Modeling Results
Oct 27, 2007 Stephen Duffull RE: Reporting Modeling Results
Oct 27, 2007 Mark Sale RE: Reporting Modeling Results
Oct 27, 2007 Nick Holford Re: Reporting Modeling Results
Oct 29, 2007 James G Wright RE: Reporting Modeling Results
Oct 29, 2007 Stephen Duffull RE: Reporting Modeling Results
Oct 29, 2007 Carl Kirkpatrick RE: Reporting Modeling Results
Oct 30, 2007 Bruce Green RE: Reporting Modeling Results
Oct 30, 2007 James G Wright RE: Reporting Modeling Results