RE: ETABAR p-value

From: Lars Erichsen Date: February 21, 2007 technical Source: mail-archive.com
Leonid, As I understand OMEGA(3,3) is the variance of the individual eta3's whereas the t-test uses the variance of the average eta3, i.e. something closer to OMEGA(3,3)/n where n is the number of subjects. Br Lars
Quoted reply history
-----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Leonid Gibiansky Sent: 20 February 2007 20:49 To: Mats Karlsson Cc: [email protected] Subject: Re: [NMusers] ETABAR p-value Mats, Thanks for your reply. I think I found where the problem was: to estimate the probability of observed ETAbar, I used the distribution with the variance estimated by the nonmem (0.97) while t-test uses variance estimated from the data (0.11784 in this case). In this particular case, variance estimated from the data is much lower than OMEGA(3,3) because the POSTHOC ETA3 distribution is rather non-normal, resulting in a small p-value. Thanks Leonid Mats Karlsson wrote: > Dear Leonid, > > The etabar test is a t-test of the mean of the posthoc etas. I would > not discard a model just because of this not being the case as there > may be other reasons than misspecification for a no-zero mean of > posthoc etas. Only when data are very rich and there is no shrinkage > (or when eta shrinkage is identically large for both positive and > negative etas) would we expect the mean of posthoc etas to be zero. > > Best regards, > Mats > > > Mats Karlsson, PhD > Professor of Pharmacometrics > Div. of Pharmacokinetics and Drug Therapy Dept. of Pharmaceutical > Biosciences Faculty of Pharmacy Uppsala University Box 591 > SE-751 24 Uppsala > Sweden > phone +46 18 471 4105 > fax +46 18 471 4003 > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Leonid Gibiansky > Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2007 18:25 > To: [email protected] > Subject: [NMusers] ETABAR p-value > > Dear All, > Could anyone help me to interpret ETAbar p value? I have: > > TOT. NO. OF OBS RECS: 1486 > TOT. NO. OF INDIVIDUALS: 213 > > ETABAR: -0.52E-02 -0.27E-01 -0.93E-01 > P VAL.: 0.90E+00 0.24E+00 0.81E-04 > > ETA1 ETA2 ETA3 > ETA1 4.08E-01 > ETA2 2.26E-01 2.31E-01 > ETA3 0.00E+00 0.00E+00 9.70E-01 > > which looks too low for me for eta3. I checked that p of > abs(mean(eta)) > > 0.093 is about 0.17 for > normally distributed variable with SD=sqrt(0.97) and about 200 patients. > >> sum1 <- 0 >> for(i in 1:1000000) if(abs(mean(rnorm(213,0,sqrt(0.97))))> 0.093) >> sum1 <- > sum1+1 >> print(sum1/1000000) > [1] 0.168624 > > > How exactly this p-value is computed (NONMEM V) ? > > Thanks > Leonid > > > > > > ********************************************************************** Proprietary or confidential information belonging to Ferring Holding SA or to one of its affiliated companies may be contained in the message. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message (or responsible for the delivery of the message to such person), please do not copy or deliver this message to anyone. In such case, please destroy this message and notify the sender by reply e-mail. Please advise the sender immediately if you or your employer do not consent to e-mail for messages of this kind. Opinions, conclusions and other information in this message represent the opinion of the sender and do not necessarily represent or reflect the views and opinions of Ferring. **********************************************************************
Feb 20, 2007 Leonid Gibiansky ETABAR p-value
Feb 20, 2007 Mats Karlsson RE: ETABAR p-value
Feb 21, 2007 Lars Erichsen RE: ETABAR p-value
Feb 21, 2007 Mats Karlsson RE: ETABAR p-value
Feb 21, 2007 Serge Guzy RE: ETABAR p-value
Feb 22, 2007 Majid . Vakily RE: ETABAR p-value
Feb 23, 2007 Martin Bergstrand RE: ETABAR p-value