Re: Centering (was Re: Missing covariates)

From: Alan Xiao Date: July 05, 2001 technical Source: cognigencorp.com
Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2001 10:08:11 -0400 From: Alan Xiao <Alan.Xiao@cognigencorp.com> Subject: Re: Centering (was Re: Missing covariates) Hi, folks, I think I should clarify my question like this: 1). Assuming you are creating a graph of concentration-time profile for a population with measured concentrations and PRED of the model, should the PRED of the structural model predict the Mean concentrations or Median concentrations , or neither ? 2). Assuming you have a final model with all significant non-centered covariates, if you want to reduce this model to the structural model, should you set each covariate at its mean value or median value, or something else? Or in this way: Assuming you have a final model with all significant non-centered covariates, if you want to predict (by PRED of this model) what the structural model predicts (by PRED), should you set each covariate at its mean value or median value, or something else? (Please don't tell me to set all coefficients of covariates at zero). About 2). If you say MEDIAN, here is my follow-up question, how can you use MEDIAN for a categorical covariate ?. If you use MEAN, is this MEAN over IDs or over concentration records? (Note that all PK parameter estimates are "regulated" by measured concentrations, not by measured CL or Vs). About the expression of a model, I am not against the "standardization" at 70 KG (weight) or whatever for the purpose of practice. However, as a strict scientific principle, the expression of a model or any analysis should strictly (and as explicitly as possible) reflect the TRUE information that the model is based on. For readers/customers who don't have the detail knowledge about how and why the model has been developed, they are easily misled to the point that the model with expression of CL = THETA1 + THETA2*(AGE-65) be developed from data with MEAN age of 65 plus some SE (especially when CENTERING concept is implied) while the real measured data (for the model development) are averaged at age of 50 plus some SE, if you artificially shift the "centering" from 50 to 65. Another physician might think that, OK, since the model has been developed from a population with mean age of 65 (which is not true), I can still use it for an 85 years old patient. But actually, this might be beyond the limit that the original data can reasonably support. I think, a lot of work need be done to bridge the PKPD scientists and clinical professionals. But I hope application won't twist what science (if it could be labeled as science) really looks like. Thanks, Alan.
Jul 02, 2001 Nick Holford Centering (was Re: Missing covariates)
Jul 02, 2001 William Bachman RE: Centering (was Re: Missing covariates)
Jul 02, 2001 Kenneth G. Kowalski RE: Centering (was Re: Missing covariates)
Jul 02, 2001 Lewis B. Sheiner Centering (was Re: Missing covariates)
Jul 03, 2001 Jogarao Gobburu Re: Centering (was Re: Missing covariates)
Jul 03, 2001 Alan Xiao Re: Centering (was Re: Missing covariates)
Jul 03, 2001 Nick Holford Re: Centering (was Re: Missing covariates)
Jul 03, 2001 Alan Xiao Re: Centering (was Re: Missing covariates)
Jul 03, 2001 Lewis B. Sheiner Re: Centering (was Re: Missing covariates)
Jul 03, 2001 Alan Xiao Re: Centering (was Re: Missing covariates)
Jul 03, 2001 Diane Mould Re: Centering (was Re: Missing covariates)
Jul 04, 2001 Nick Holford Re: Centering (was Re: Missing covariates)
Jul 04, 2001 Alan Xiao Re: Centering (was Re: Missing covariates)
Jul 04, 2001 Diane Mould Re: Centering (was Re: Missing covariates)
Jul 05, 2001 Nick Holford Re: Centering (was Re: Missing covariates)
Jul 05, 2001 Stephen Duffull RE: Centering (was Re: Missing covariates)
Jul 05, 2001 Nick Holford Re: Centering (was Re: Missing covariates)
Jul 05, 2001 Leon Aarons 70kg neonates
Jul 05, 2001 Nick Holford Re: 70kg neonates
Jul 05, 2001 Peter Bonate Centering
Jul 05, 2001 Alan Xiao Re: Centering (was Re: Missing covariates)
Jul 05, 2001 Leonid Gibiansky RE: Centering (was Re: Missing covariates)
Jul 05, 2001 Kenneth G. Kowalski RE: Centering (was Re: Missing covariates)
Jul 05, 2001 William Bachman RE: Centering (was Re: Missing covariates)
Jul 05, 2001 Diane Mould Re: Centering (was Re: Missing covariates)
Jul 05, 2001 Alan Xiao Re: Centering (was Re: Missing covariates)
Jul 05, 2001 Alan Xiao Question 2 about prediction and covariates
Jul 06, 2001 Matt Hutmacher RE: Centering (was Re: Missing covariates)
Jul 09, 2001 Vladimir Piotrovskij RE: Centering (Impact on SE)
Jul 09, 2001 Alan Xiao Re: Centering (was Re: Missing covariates)
Jul 09, 2001 Kenneth G. Kowalski RE: Centering (Impact on SE)
Jul 09, 2001 Vladimir Piotrovskij RE: Centering (Impact on SE)
Jul 09, 2001 Smith Brian P RE: Centering (Impact on SE)
Jul 09, 2001 Matt Hutmacher RE: Centering (was Re: Missing covariates)
Jul 12, 2001 Juan Jose Perez Ruixo RE: Centering (was Re: Missing covariates)
Jul 12, 2001 Juan Jose Perez Ruixo RE: Centering (was Re: Missing covariates)
Jul 12, 2001 Matt Hutmacher RE: Centering (was Re: Missing covariates)
Jul 12, 2001 Alan Xiao Re: Centering (was Re: Missing covariates)
Jul 30, 2001 Juan Jose Perez Ruixo Re: Centering (was Re: Missing covariates)
Jul 30, 2001 Alan Xiao Re: Centering (was Re: Missing covariates)
Jul 30, 2001 Leonid Gibiansky RE: Centering (was Re: Missing covariates)