Nonparametric method

5 messages 4 people Latest: Jul 25, 2007

Nonparametric method

From: Thomas Ludden Date: July 24, 2007 technical
Dear nmusers, Since Rik Schoemaker's original e-mail a few weeks ago, the code associated with the NONPARAMETRIC option has been reviewed. There are problems (bugs) that may reveal themselves when the data set contains individuals with different active etas. For example, a data set with some individuals receiving only IV doses while others receive only oral doses may exhibit this bug. For the individuals receiving only IV doses, the eta's associated with absorption-related parameter such as F1, ALAG1, KA will be nonactive. At this time it appears, but it is not certain, that the bugs will only affect the resulting estimates when the data set contains individuals with different active etas. Code changes to address these bugs are being reviewed and tested. Anyone who has a control stream and data set for which they have applied the NONPARAMETRIC option is welcome to send these to me ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) for testing with the modified routine. We hope to provide fixes in the near future. Tom Ludden
Quoted reply history
________________________________ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rik Schoemaker Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2007 11:02 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [NMusers] Nonparametric Modelling Dear Julie, Thank you for your comments! Unfortunately the parametric step runs just fine... :-) Cheers, Rik >>> "Julie ANTIC" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 04-07-07 3:48 PM >>> The nonparametric option will only estimate the distribution of ETA. The fixed parameters of your model (THETA(1), THETA(2),...,THETA(8)) should be estimated before the non parametric step with a parametric procedure ($EST...). By default, if the (parametric) estimation ($EST) step failed, the nonparametric step is not run. I think, it is your problem because the UNCONDITIONAL option just permits to run the nonparametric step when the $EST step has failed. If I were you, I would try to run the command file without the $NONPARAMETRIC option, and correct eventuel errors... I hope it'll help, good luck, Julie Antic ----- Original Message ----- From: Rik Schoemaker <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [email protected] Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2007 2:30 PM Subject: [NMusers] Nonparametric Modelling Dear all, I'm trying to implement nonparametric population parameter estimation in NONMEM VI but I run into the following error message: NONPARAMETRIC ESTIMATE REQUESTED. BUT NO INDIVIDUAL RECORDS EXIST WITH DATA MODELED WITH ACTIVE ETA'S As a result no tables are output at all. However, if I leave out the $NONP UNCONDITIONAL the model runs fine and I do get my tables... Any clues? Thanks in advance! Rik Schoemaker $PROB PK C1 $INPUT ID TRT TIME NDV DV CMT AMT SS RATE II MDV WT $DATA DRUG4.NM $SUBROUTINES ADVAN4 TRANS4 $PK TABS = THETA(1)*EXP(ETA(1)) KA = 0.692/TABS S2 = THETA(2)*EXP(ETA(2)) V2 = S2 V3 = THETA(3)*EXP(ETA(3)) CL = THETA(4)*EXP(ETA(4)) Q = THETA(5)*EXP(ETA(5)) ALAG1 = THETA(6)*EXP(ETA(6)) F1 = THETA(7)*EXP(ETA(7)) $ERROR IPRED = LOG(.025) W = THETA(8) IF(F.GT.0) IPRED = LOG(F) IRES = IPRED-DV IWRES = IRES/W Y = IPRED+ERR(1)*W $THETA 1 15 60 12 15 0.6 0.45 0.3 $OMEGA .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 $SIGMA 1 FIXED $EST PRINT=1 MAXEVAL 9999 POSTHOC NOABORT METHOD=1 MSFO=msfb1 $NONP UNCONDITIONAL $COV PRINT=E $TABLE ID TIME NDV DV CMT AMT SS RATE II MDV WT IPRED IRES IWRES FILE = SDTAB1 ONEHEADER NOPRINT $TABLE ID ALAG1 TABS S2 V3 CL Q F1 FILE=PATAB1 ONEHEADER NOPRINT First few data lines: 1 0 0 . . 1 175000 1 . 12 1 58 1 0 0.05 . . 2 . . . . 1 58 1 0 0.2166666667 . . 2 . . . . 1 58 1 0 0.3833333333 . . 2 . . . . 1 58 1 0 0.55 . . 2 . . . . 1 58 1 0 0.7166666667 . . 2 . . . . 1 58 1 0 0.8833333333 . . 2 . . . . 1 58 1 0 1 1206 7.0950643773 2 . . . . 0 58 1 0 1.05 . . 2 . . . . 1 58 1 0 1.2166666667 . . 2 . . . . 1 58 1 0 1.3833333333 . . 2 . . . . 1 58 1 0 1.55 . . 2 . . . . 1 58 1 0 1.7166666667 . . 2 . . . . 1 58 1 0 1.8833333333 . . 2 . . . . 1 58 1 0 2 1206 7.0950643773 2 . . . . 0 58 1 0 2.05 . . 2 . . . . 1 58 1 0 2.2166666667 . . 2 . . . . 1 58 1 0 2.3833333333 . . 2 . . . . 1 58 1 0 2.55 . . 2 . . . . 1 58 1 0 2.7166666667 . . 2 . . . . 1 58 1 0 2.8833333333 . . 2 . . . . 1 58 1 0 3 975 6.882437471 2 . . . . 0 58 _______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

RE: Nonparametric method

From: Brian Sadler Date: July 24, 2007 technical
Dear Tom, How does it differ from the parametric problem of non-influential correlated etas addressed by Stuart in article 99nov142002.html ( http://www.cognigencorp.com/nonmem/nm/99nov142002.html)? Cheers. Brian _____
Quoted reply history
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ludden, Thomas (MYD) Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2007 12:02 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [NMusers] Nonparametric method Dear nmusers, Since Rik Schoemaker's original e-mail a few weeks ago, the code associated with the NONPARAMETRIC option has been reviewed. There are problems (bugs) that may reveal themselves when the data set contains individuals with different active etas. For example, a data set with some individuals receiving only IV doses while others receive only oral doses may exhibit this bug. For the individuals receiving only IV doses, the eta's associated with absorption-related parameter such as F1, ALAG1, KA will be nonactive. At this time it appears, but it is not certain, that the bugs will only affect the resulting estimates when the data set contains individuals with different active etas. Code changes to address these bugs are being reviewed and tested. Anyone who has a control stream and data set for which they have applied the NONPARAMETRIC option is welcome to send these to me ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) for testing with the modified routine. We hope to provide fixes in the near future. Tom Ludden _____ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rik Schoemaker Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2007 11:02 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [NMusers] Nonparametric Modelling Dear Julie, Thank you for your comments! Unfortunately the parametric step runs just fine... :-) Cheers, Rik >>> "Julie ANTIC" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 04-07-07 3:48 PM >>> The nonparametric option will only estimate the distribution of ETA. The fixed parameters of your model (THETA(1), THETA(2),...,THETA(8)) should be estimated before the non parametric step with a parametric procedure ($EST...). By default, if the (parametric) estimation ($EST) step failed, the nonparametric step is not run. I think, it is your problem because the UNCONDITIONAL option just permits to run the nonparametric step when the $EST step has failed. If I were you, I would try to run the command file without the $NONPARAMETRIC option, and correct eventuel errors... I hope it'll help, good luck, Julie Antic ----- Original Message ----- From: Rik Schoemaker <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [email protected] Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2007 2:30 PM Subject: [NMusers] Nonparametric Modelling Dear all, I'm trying to implement nonparametric population parameter estimation in NONMEM VI but I run into the following error message: NONPARAMETRIC ESTIMATE REQUESTED. BUT NO INDIVIDUAL RECORDS EXIST WITH DATA MODELED WITH ACTIVE ETA'S As a result no tables are output at all. However, if I leave out the $NONP UNCONDITIONAL the model runs fine and I do get my tables... Any clues? Thanks in advance! Rik Schoemaker $PROB PK C1 $INPUT ID TRT TIME NDV DV CMT AMT SS RATE II MDV WT $DATA DRUG4.NM $SUBROUTINES ADVAN4 TRANS4 $PK TABS = THETA(1)*EXP(ETA(1)) KA = 0.692/TABS S2 = THETA(2)*EXP(ETA(2)) V2 = S2 V3 = THETA(3)*EXP(ETA(3)) CL = THETA(4)*EXP(ETA(4)) Q = THETA(5)*EXP(ETA(5)) ALAG1 = THETA(6)*EXP(ETA(6)) F1 = THETA(7)*EXP(ETA(7)) $ERROR IPRED = LOG(.025) W = THETA(8) IF(F.GT.0) IPRED = LOG(F) IRES = IPRED-DV IWRES = IRES/W Y = IPRED+ERR(1)*W $THETA 1 15 60 12 15 0.6 0.45 0.3 $OMEGA .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 $SIGMA 1 FIXED $EST PRINT=1 MAXEVAL 9999 POSTHOC NOABORT METHOD=1 MSFO=msfb1 $NONP UNCONDITIONAL $COV PRINT=E $TABLE ID TIME NDV DV CMT AMT SS RATE II MDV WT IPRED IRES IWRES FILE = SDTAB1 ONEHEADER NOPRINT $TABLE ID ALAG1 TABS S2 V3 CL Q F1 FILE=PATAB1 ONEHEADER NOPRINT First few data lines: 1 0 0 . . 1 175000 1 . 12 1 58 1 0 0.05 . . 2 . . . . 1 58 1 0 0.2166666667 . . 2 . . . . 1 58 1 0 0.3833333333 . . 2 . . . . 1 58 1 0 0.55 . . 2 . . . . 1 58 1 0 0.7166666667 . . 2 . . . . 1 58 1 0 0.8833333333 . . 2 . . . . 1 58 1 0 1 1206 7.0950643773 2 . . . . 0 58 1 0 1.05 . . 2 . . . . 1 58 1 0 1.2166666667 . . 2 . . . . 1 58 1 0 1.3833333333 . . 2 . . . . 1 58 1 0 1.55 . . 2 . . . . 1 58 1 0 1.7166666667 . . 2 . . . . 1 58 1 0 1.8833333333 . . 2 . . . . 1 58 1 0 2 1206 7.0950643773 2 . . . . 0 58 1 0 2.05 . . 2 . . . . 1 58 1 0 2.2166666667 . . 2 . . . . 1 58 1 0 2.3833333333 . . 2 . . . . 1 58 1 0 2.55 . . 2 . . . . 1 58 1 0 2.7166666667 . . 2 . . . . 1 58 1 0 2.8833333333 . . 2 . . . . 1 58 1 0 3 975 6.882437471 2 . . . . 0 58 ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________________________________________________

Re: Nonparametric method

From: Leonid Gibiansky Date: July 24, 2007 technical
If it is indeed similar, one can try to solve is with the similar trick, forcing all etas to work for all subjects: http://www.metrumrg.com/publications/aaps_2004_etabug.pdf Leonid Brian M. Sadler wrote: > Dear Tom, > > How does it differ from the parametric problem of non-influential correlated etas addressed by Stuart in article 99nov142002.html ( http://www.cognigencorp.com/nonmem/nm/99nov142002.html )? > > Cheers… Brian > > * From: * [EMAIL PROTECTED] [ mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Ludden, Thomas (MYD) > > *Sent:* Tuesday, July 24, 2007 12:02 PM > *To:* [email protected] > *Subject:* [NMusers] Nonparametric method > > Dear nmusers, > > Since Rik Schoemaker's original e-mail a few weeks ago, the code associated with the NONPARAMETRIC option has been reviewed. There are problems (bugs) that may reveal themselves when the data set contains individuals with different active etas. For example, a data set with some individuals receiving only IV doses while others receive only oral doses may exhibit this bug. For the individuals receiving only IV doses, the eta's associated with absorption-related parameter such as F1, ALAG1, KA will be nonactive. At this time it appears, but it is not certain, that the bugs will only affect the resulting estimates when the data set contains individuals with different active etas. Code changes to address these bugs are being reviewed and tested. Anyone who has a control stream and data set for which they have applied the NONPARAMETRIC option is welcome to send these to me ([EMAIL PROTECTED] < mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) for testing with the modified routine. We hope to provide fixes in the near future. > > Tom Ludden > > * From: * [EMAIL PROTECTED] [ mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Rik Schoemaker > > *Sent:* Wednesday, July 04, 2007 11:02 AM > *To:* [email protected] > *Subject:* Re: [NMusers] Nonparametric Modelling > > Dear Julie, > > Thank you for your comments! Unfortunately the parametric step runs just fine... :-) > > Cheers, > > Rik > > > >> "Julie ANTIC" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 04-07-07 3:48 PM >>> > > The nonparametric option will only estimate the distribution of ETA. The fixed parameters of your model (THETA(1), THETA(2),...,THETA(8)) should be estimated before the non parametric step with a parametric procedure ($EST...). > > By default, if the (parametric) estimation ($EST) step failed, the nonparametric step is not run. I think, it is your problem because the UNCONDITIONAL option just permits to run the nonparametric step when the $EST step has failed. > > If I were you, I would try to run the command file without the $NONPARAMETRIC option, and correct eventuel errors... > > I hope it'll help, good luck, > > Julie Antic >
Quoted reply history
> ----- Original Message ----- > > * From: * Rik Schoemaker <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > * To: * [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > > * Sent: * Wednesday, July 04, 2007 2:30 PM > > * Subject: * [NMusers] Nonparametric Modelling > > Dear all, > > I'm trying to implement nonparametric population parameter > estimation in NONMEM VI but I run into the following error message: > > NONPARAMETRIC ESTIMATE REQUESTED. BUT NO INDIVIDUAL RECORDS EXIST > WITH DATA MODELED WITH ACTIVE ETA'S > > As a result no tables are output at all. However, if I leave out the > > $NONP UNCONDITIONAL > the model runs fine and I do get my tables... > > Any clues? > > Thanks in advance! > > Rik Schoemaker > > $ PROB PK C1 > $INPUT ID TRT TIME NDV DV CMT AMT SS RATE II MDV WT > $DATA DRUG4.NM > $SUBROUTINES ADVAN4 TRANS4 > $PK > TABS = THETA(1)*EXP(ETA(1)) > KA = 0.692/TABS > S2 = THETA(2)*EXP(ETA(2)) > V2 = S2 > V3 = THETA(3)*EXP(ETA(3)) > CL = THETA(4)*EXP(ETA(4)) > Q = THETA(5)*EXP(ETA(5)) > ALAG1 = THETA(6)*EXP(ETA(6)) > F1 = THETA(7)*EXP(ETA(7)) > $ERROR > IPRED = LOG(.025) > W = THETA(8) > IF(F.GT.0) IPRED = LOG(F) > IRES = IPRED-DV > IWRES = IRES/W > Y = IPRED+ERR(1)*W > $THETA 1 15 60 12 15 0.6 0.45 0.3 > $OMEGA .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 > $SIGMA 1 FIXED > $EST PRINT=1 MAXEVAL 9999 POSTHOC NOABORT METHOD=1 > MSFO=msfb1 > $NONP UNCONDITIONAL > $COV PRINT=E > $TABLE ID TIME NDV DV CMT AMT SS RATE II MDV WT > IPRED IRES IWRES FILE = SDTAB1 > ONEHEADER NOPRINT > $TABLE ID ALAG1 TABS S2 V3 CL Q F1 FILE=PATAB1 > ONEHEADER NOPRINT > > First few data lines: > > 1 0 0 . . 1 175000 1 . 12 1 58 > 1 0 0.05 . . 2 . . . . 1 58 > 1 0 0.2166666667 . . 2 . . . . 1 58 > 1 0 0.3833333333 . . 2 . . . . 1 58 > 1 0 0.55 . . 2 . . . . 1 58 > 1 0 0.7166666667 . . 2 . . . . 1 58 > 1 0 0.8833333333 . . 2 . . . . 1 58 > 1 0 1 1206 7.0950643773 2 . . . . 0 58 > 1 0 1.05 . . 2 . . . . 1 58 > 1 0 1.2166666667 . . 2 . . . . 1 58 > 1 0 1.3833333333 . . 2 . . . . 1 58 > 1 0 1.55 . . 2 . . . . 1 58 > 1 0 1.7166666667 . . 2 . . . . 1 58 > 1 0 1.8833333333 . . 2 . . . . 1 58 > 1 0 2 1206 7.0950643773 2 . . . . 0 58 > 1 0 2.05 . . 2 . . . . 1 58 > 1 0 2.2166666667 . . 2 . . . . 1 58 > 1 0 2.3833333333 . . 2 . . . . 1 58 > 1 0 2.55 . . 2 . . . . 1 58 > 1 0 2.7166666667 . . 2 . . . . 1 58 > 1 0 2.8833333333 . . 2 . . . . 1 58 > 1 0 3 975 6.882437471 2 . . . . 0 58 > > _______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Re: Nonparametric method

From: Nick Holford Date: July 24, 2007 technical
Tom, Rik Schoemaker wrote: > > I'm trying to implement nonparametric population parameter estimation in > > NONMEM VI but I run into the following error message: > > > > NONPARAMETRIC ESTIMATE REQUESTED. BUT NO INDIVIDUAL RECORDS EXIST > > WITH DATA MODELED WITH ACTIVE ETA'S You wrote: > > Since Rik Schoemaker's original e-mail a few weeks ago, the code > > associated with the NONPARAMETRIC option has been reviewed. There are > > problems (bugs) that may reveal themselves when the data set contains > > individuals with different active etas. For example, a data set with > > some individuals receiving only IV doses while others receive only oral > > doses may exhibit this bug. For the individuals receiving only IV > > doses, the eta's associated with absorption-related parameter such > > as F1, ALAG1, KA will be nonactive. This example makes it reasonably clear what an 'ACTIVE ETA' is but there is no mention of 'ACTIVE ETA' in the NONMEM help. Perhaps you could consider adding this to the next release so that users can get some clues on how to interpret this error message. What is strange here is the error message seems to anticipate what you are now identifying as a bug. If you fix the bug with NP is there a situation where this error message can occur? Nick -- Nick Holford, Dept Pharmacology & Clinical Pharmacology University of Auckland, 85 Park Rd, Private Bag 92019, Auckland, New Zealand [EMAIL PROTECTED] tel:+64(9)373-7599x86730 fax:+64(9)373-7090 www.health.auckland.ac.nz/pharmacology/staff/nholford

RE: Nonparametric method

From: Thomas Ludden Date: July 25, 2007 technical
Nick, We have made a note to include something in the $NONPARAMETRIC help item about active etas. You wrote: >>What is strange here is the error message seems to anticipate what you are now identifying as a bug. If you fix the bug >>with NP is there a situation where this error message can occur? This is one of the issues that is causing us to be cautious about providing a fix. The NP routine counts the number of individuals with at least one active eta. The value of this variable is later used as a denominator. Prior to this use the variable is tested and if it is zero the "no individuals with active eta's" smessage is issued and the routine terminates. I do not know if Stuart Beal was just being cautious and preventing any chance for a divide-by-zero run-time error or if he had in mind a particular set of circumstances that might result in this condition. It appears from the code and from tracing variable values for Rik Schoemaker's example that under some circumstances there can be a failure to correctly reset the base number of active eta's. There also appears to be a problem associated with using the INTERACTION option when individuals do not have the same active eta's. Alison Boeckmann has offered to look at these problems when time permits. I have sent her the results obtained with various code changes for Rik's example, for test problems provided by Mats Karlsson and for test problems constructed here. If anyone besides Rik has encountered the "no individuals with active eta's" message we would like to know the circumstances. Thanks Tom
Quoted reply history
-----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Nick Holford Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2007 4:52 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [NMusers] Nonparametric method Tom, Rik Schoemaker wrote: > > I'm trying to implement nonparametric population parameter estimation in NONMEM VI but I run into the following error message: > > > > NONPARAMETRIC ESTIMATE REQUESTED. BUT NO INDIVIDUAL RECORDS EXIST > > WITH DATA MODELED WITH ACTIVE ETA'S You wrote: > > Since Rik Schoemaker's original e-mail a few weeks ago, the code > > associated with the NONPARAMETRIC option has been reviewed. There are > > problems (bugs) that may reveal themselves when the data set contains > > individuals with different active etas. For example, a data set with > > some individuals receiving only IV doses while others receive only oral > > doses may exhibit this bug. For the individuals receiving only IV > > doses, the eta's associated with absorption-related parameter such > > as F1, ALAG1, KA will be nonactive. This example makes it reasonably clear what an 'ACTIVE ETA' is but there is no mention of 'ACTIVE ETA' in the NONMEM help. Perhaps you could consider adding this to the next release so that users can get some clues on how to interpret this error message. What is strange here is the error message seems to anticipate what you are now identifying as a bug. If you fix the bug with NP is there a situation where this error message can occur? Nick -- Nick Holford, Dept Pharmacology & Clinical Pharmacology University of Auckland, 85 Park Rd, Private Bag 92019, Auckland, New Zealand [EMAIL PROTECTED] tel:+64(9)373-7599x86730 fax:+64(9)373-7090 www.health.auckland.ac.nz/pharmacology/staff/nholford _______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________