RE: FW: advan8 vs. advan13 (CORRECTION)

From: Robert Bauer Date: November 04, 2009 technical Source: cognigen.com
Nick: Because EXPP could be highly negative, then EXP(-EXPP) has the potential to result in floating overflow. So, a filtering line would still be good. Using the logit code, the theta(1) would indeed be more easily interpretable. However, as you say, your theta would need to be constrained between 0 and 1 But, if we wish to retain linear mu modeling, something that is good to do for importance sampling, and sometimes essential for SAEM, then the parameterization I originally recommended would be most suitable: . MU_1=THETA(1) EXPP=MU_1+ETA(1) IE (EXPP>100.0) EXPP0.0 ;protect against floating overflow EXPW=EXP(EXPP) BIO=EXPW/(1.0+EXPW) or MU_1=THETA(1) EXPP=MU_1+ETA(1) IE (EXPP>100.0) EXPP0.0 ;protect against floating overflow EXPW=EXP(-EXPP) BIO=1/(1.0+EXPW) would be best. Furthermore, theta(1) itself may be negative infinity to positive infinity, so no boundaries are necessary to theta(1). All of these factors make the analysis particularly amenable to Gibbs sampling when doing BAYES analysis as well. Otherwise, non-linear mu/theta relationships and boundary imposing means Metropolis-Hastings sampling must be done, a less efficient process. When the analysis is done, the final result thetas could be transformed to more meaningful values: Thetap(1)=1/(1+exp(-theta(1))) and reported in that fashion. The transformation patterns after the individual subject parameter BIO and its relationship to theta. An appropriate propagation of errors algorithm would be used to transform the standard errors as well. Robert J. Bauer, Ph.D. Vice President, Pharmacometrics ICON Development Solutions Tel: (215) 616-6428 Mob: (925) 286-0769 Email: Robert.Bauer Web: www.icondevsolutions.com
Quoted reply history
________________________________ From: owner-nmusers On Behalf Of Nick Holford Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2009 10:40 PM To: nmusers Subject: Re: FW: [NMusers] advan8 vs. advan13 (CORRECTION) Peiming, Thank you for pointing out my mistake again! Perhaps next time you should make the correction and send it to nmusers :-) MU_1=LOG(THETA(1)/(1-THETA(1)) ; logit of population bioavailability EXPP=MU_1+ETA(1) ; add random effect BIO=1/(1+EXP(-EXPP)) ; individual bioavailability Nick Ma, Peiming wrote: Unfortunately, Nick, you have an extra EXP: the denominator of BIO should be just 1 + EXP(-EXPP). :-) Cheers, ________________________________ From: owner-nmusers [mailto:owner-nmusers Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2009 3:43 PM To: nmusers Subject: Re: [NMusers] advan8 vs. advan13 (CORRECTION) Hi, Thanks to Peiming Ma and Thuy Vu for pointing out an error in my attempt to transform bioavailability into its logit. The logit transformation of a probability is ln(P/(1-P)) i.e. the log of the odds ratio. The reverse transform is correct i.e. exp(logit) is the odds ratio and P is then OR/(1+OR) (or 1/1+exp(-logit)). If THETA(1) is the bioavailability then this is (I hope) the correct transformation of THETA(1) and reverse transform to get the individual bioavailability with a random effect constrained to be within 0 and 1. MU_1=LOG(THETA(1)/(1-THETA(1)) ; logit of population bioavailability EXPP=MU_1+ETA(1) ; add random effect BIO=1/(1+EXP(-EXP(EXPP))) ; individual bioavailability Nick -- Nick Holford, Professor Clinical Pharmacology Dept Pharmacology & Clinical Pharmacology University of Auckland,85 Park Rd,Private Bag 92019,Auckland,New Zealand tel:+64(9)923-6730 fax:+64(9)373-7090 mobile:+64(21)46 23 53 email: n.holford http://www.fmhs.auckland.ac.nz/sms/pharmacology/holford -- Nick Holford, Professor Clinical Pharmacology Dept Pharmacology & Clinical Pharmacology University of Auckland,85 Park Rd,Private Bag 92019,Auckland,New Zealand tel:+64(9)923-6730 fax:+64(9)373-7090 mobile:+64(21)46 23 53 email: n.holford http://www.fmhs.auckland.ac.nz/sms/pharmacology/holford
Nov 04, 2009 Nick Holford Re: advan8 vs. advan13 (CORRECTION)
Nov 04, 2009 Robert Bauer RE: FW: advan8 vs. advan13 (CORRECTION)
Nov 05, 2009 Nick Holford Re: advan8 vs. advan13 (CORRECTION)
Nov 05, 2009 Leonid Gibiansky Re: FW: advan8 vs. advan13 (CORRECTION)
Nov 05, 2009 Robert Bauer RE: FW: advan8 vs. advan13 (CORRECTION)
Nov 05, 2009 Jurgen Bulitta RE: advan8 vs. advan13 (CORRECTION)
Nov 05, 2009 Stephen Duffull RE: advan8 vs. advan13 (CORRECTION)