RE: Linear VS LTBS

From: Mats Karlsson Date: August 24, 2009 technical Source: mail-archive.com
Hi Steve, I think you're missing an important point. As I wrote to Nick, you will never get concentrations reported regardless of their value. At some point, you will only get the information that concentration is below a limit (LOQ,LOD,LO?). This you should take into account in your design. Error models for concentrations below LO? are not entirely unimportant, but will not have the properties you mention below. Best regards, Mats Mats Karlsson, PhD Professor of Pharmacometrics Dept of Pharmaceutical Biosciences Uppsala University Box 591 751 24 Uppsala Sweden phone: +46 18 4714105 fax: +46 18 471 4003
Quoted reply history
-----Original Message----- From: Stephen Duffull [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 2:49 AM To: Mats Karlsson; 'Nick Holford'; 'Leonid Gibiansky' Cc: 'nmusers' Subject: RE: [NMusers] Linear VS LTBS Mats Just a comment on your comments below: "All models are wrong and I see no reason why the exponential error model would be different although I think it is better than the proportional error for most situations. " "Why would you not be able to get sensible information from models that don't have an additive error component?" I agree that for estimation purposes a purely proportional or exponential error model often seems to work well and under the principles of "all models are wrong" it may well be appropriately justified. This is probably because estimation processes that we use in standard software are fairly robust to trivial solutions. The theory of optimal design is less forgiving in this light and if you stated that your error was proportional to the observation then it would conclude that there would be no error when there is no observation (which we know is not true due to LOD issues). All designs are optimal when there is zero error since the information matrix would be infinite. Practically, the smallest observation will have least error and hence be in some sense close to optimal. So, a proportional or exponential only error model should be used with caution in anything other than estimation and not used for the purposes of optimal design. Steve --
Aug 20, 2009 Indranil Bhattacharya Linear VS LTBS
Aug 21, 2009 Joachim Grevel RE: Linear VS LTBS
Aug 21, 2009 Indranil Bhattacharya Re: Linear VS LTBS
Aug 21, 2009 Doug J. Eleveld RE: Linear VS LTBS
Aug 21, 2009 Leonid Gibiansky Re: Linear VS LTBS
Aug 21, 2009 Nick Holford Re: Linear VS LTBS
Aug 21, 2009 Ekaterina Gibiansky RE: Linear VS LTBS
Aug 23, 2009 Stephen Duffull RE: Linear VS LTBS
Aug 23, 2009 Nick Holford Re: Linear VS LTBS
Aug 23, 2009 Mats Karlsson RE: Linear VS LTBS
Aug 24, 2009 Nick Holford Re: Linear VS LTBS
Aug 24, 2009 Stephen Duffull RE: Linear VS LTBS
Aug 24, 2009 Mats Karlsson RE: Linear VS LTBS
Aug 24, 2009 Indranil Bhattacharya Re: Linear VS LTBS
Aug 25, 2009 Bob Leary RE: Linear VS LTBS