Re: Absorption delay NOT completed before the next dose is given

The Users Guide and NM help are incorrect. When the doses are transient (as oppposed to steady-state) there is no such restriction in PREDPP. I am attaching a brief memo giving more details. On Sat, 31 Mar 2007 18:04:01 -0400, "Samtani, Mahesh [PRDUS]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: > Dear NM users, > > NM help files says the following about ALAG > > > > "When additional doses are specified on a dose event record, the > absorption > lag time applies to the dose and to all the additional doses. In this > case > the lag time should not exceed the (length of the) interdose interval" > > > > My questions are > a) Why doesn't ADDL work for the above specific case? > b) I am running linear models with ADVAN2 and ADVAN5 and absorption > delay > is NOT completed before the next dose is given. Due to the problem stated > above I am not using ADDL. Instead I have a dosing record at every time a > dose enters the depot compartment. Will this circumvent the problem > stated > above? In other words does ALAG always have to be smaller than II and > why? > > > > Please advice…MNS > > > > > > > > > -- Alison Boeckmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mahesh Samtani raised two questions about the restrictions on ALAG and II described in the NONMEM Users Guides as follows. -------- From Guide VI (1992) Chapter III.F.6: When additional doses are specified on a dose event record (see section V.K), the absorption lag time acting at the time on the dose record applies to the dose and to all the additional doses. In this case the lag time should not exceed the (length of the) interdose interval. With a steady-state multiple dose (see section V.F) the absorption lag time applies not only to this dose, but also to all the preceding implied doses. With such a dose, the lag time should not exceed the interdose interval. -------- From on-line help (approx. 1996) "ABSORPTION LAG PARAMETER": When additional doses are specified on a dose event record, the absorption lag time applies to the dose and to all the additional doses. In this case the lag time should not exceed the (length of the) interdose interval. With a steady-state multiple dose the absorption lag time applies not only to this dose, but also to all the preceding implied doses. With such a dose, the lag time should not exceed the interdose interval. -------- >a) Why doesn't ADDL work for the above specific case? The first issue is why the restriction (ALAG<=II) exists for additional transient doses. In fact, there is no such restriction in PREDPP. It appears that a mistake was made in Guide VI and that this mistake was perpetuated in the on-line help entry. The similar restriction for steady state doses does exist and can be justified. The message from PREDPP is: PK PARAMETER FOR ABSORPTION LAG IS GREATER THAN OR EQUAL TO STEADY STATE DOSE INTERVAL (Notice that this is a little stronger than what is in the Users Guides, in that it does not allow ALAG=II) With steady state and multiple doses, PREDPP computes the state vector at the time t on the dose event record. If absorption lag is present, PREDPP then advances the system by the amount of time given by ALAG. If this time is greater than II, then there should be another dose given during the advance, at t+II. But this would contradict the principle that the SS dose is the LAST of a series of implied doses. In general, it is the users responsibility to use the ADDL data item (or to provide transient dose records) to continue the steady state pattern into the future. PREDPP will not supply additional doses, not even for the purpose of computing steady state levels. The Users Guides will be corrected at some point in the future. For now, the on-line help entry should be: When additional doses are specified on a dose event record, the absorption lag time applies to the dose and to all the additional doses. With a steady-state multiple dose the absorption lag time applies not only to this dose, but also to all the preceding implied doses. With a steady-state dose, the lag time should be less than the interdose interval. > b) I am running linear models with ADVAN2 and ADVAN5 and absorption > delay is NOT completed before the next dose is given. Due to the > problem stated above I am not using ADDL. Instead I have a dosing > record at every time a dose enters the depot compartment. Will this > circumvent the problem stated above? In other words does ALAG always > have to be smaller than II and why? There is no restriction in PREDPP that absorption delay for a given dose event record must be completed before a new dose is entered in to the system.