Re: [Fwd: Simulations]

From: Alison Boeckmann Date: November 22, 1999 technical Source: cognigencorp.com
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 15:26:26 -0800 (PST) From: ABoeckmann <alison@c255.ucsf.edu> Subject: Re: [Fwd: Simulations] Comment from Stuart Beal... As a habit, I do not read NM-Users mail, and therefore have not read any mail described as "Eliane's e-mail". The following comments are simply meant as follow ups to some pointed comments recently made by Jeff Wald. >1.) NONMEM always reports the variance of a normally-distributed eta. When > using a parameter model of the form p=theta*exp(eta), then > Var(eta) is APPROXIMATELY (CV(p))**2. That > approximation is pretty good for small CV's. For example when > sqrt(Var(eta)) = 0.1 then CV = 0.10025. However, when sqrt(Var(eta)) gets > large the approximation isn't so good. This is illustrated here using the > values from Eliane's manuscript: > >Parameter sqrt(Var(eta)) CV >CL 0.56 0.607 >V 0.604 0.664 >ka 0.991 1.29 The approximation has nothing to do with normality, nor, really, does that which NONMEM reports. It is the so-called exact value (given in Jeff's table, but not given in NONMEM output) which depends on a normally distributed eta. For more information about the approximation (and the exact value), see my memos to NM-Users entitled "Computation of CV's from OMEGA" dated September 26,27, 1997, which may be found in the NM-Users Archive ( http://www.phor.com/nonmem/nm/index.html). >2.) The same model structure as NONMEM could have been used with normal > distributions for log(p) and then translated to p. This approach is > succinct in PTD through use of the exponentiated normal distribtion > component. Alternately, a parameter modeled as p=theta*exp(eta) in > NONMEM would be: > >mean(p) = theta*exp(Var(eta)/2) >sd(p) = mean(p)*sqrt(exp(Var(eta))-1) It is not clear to me what is being asserted here. Perhaps, it is being asserted that a technique might be used that involves computing the mean and sd of a parameter given be p=theta*exp(eta) using the two above formulas. I think this would be a bad idea. These formulas do rely on normality, and should not be generally trusted in population data analysis. Stu Beal
Nov 12, 1999 Eliane Fuseau Simulation
Nov 15, 1999 Michael Looby RE: Pharsight Simulations
Nov 15, 1999 Matt Hutmacher RE: Simulations
Nov 16, 1999 Jeff Wald Re: FW: Pharsight Simulations
Nov 19, 1999 Jeff Wald Re: [Fwd: Simulations]
Nov 22, 1999 Alison Boeckmann Re: [Fwd: Simulations]
Nov 25, 1999 Jeff Wald Pharsight to NONMEM, simulations and modeling
Nov 29, 1999 Stuart Beal Re: [Fwd: Simulations]