Link different thetas to same omega using mu referencing

7 messages 6 people Latest: Apr 14, 2016
Hi Consider the case where we have a categorical (potentially time-varying) covariate named CAT that can take several values (e.g. 0,1,2,3). Let's say I want to model CL depending on this categorical covariate (where parameters are estimated on log-scale). A simple solution to this would be IF(CAT.EQ.1) TVCL = THETA(1) IF(CAT.EQ.2) TVCL = THETA(2) IF(CAT.EQ.3) TVCL = THETA(3) I let CL be described by a log-normal distribution with the same omega element for all CAT values. CL = EXP(TVCL + ETA(1)) With an omega statement: $OMEGA 0.1 I now want to switch to the mu referencing framework in NONMEM. Each theta needs to be reference to a MU value, and to force it to be described by the same eta I apply the following approach. MU_1 = THETA(1) MU_2 = THETA(2) MU_3 = THETA(3) IF(CAT.EQ.1) CL = EXP(MU_1 + ETA(1)) IF(CAT.EQ.2) CL = EXP(MU_2 + ETA(2)) IF(CAT.EQ.3) CL = EXP(MU_3 + ETA(3)) With an omega statement: $OMEGA BLOCK(1) 0.1 $OMEGA BLOCK(1) SAME $OMEGA BLOCK(1) SAME where I force the omega element corresponding to ETA1, ETA2 and ETA3 to be the same. Is this a valid approach to obtain what I need? Or is there a simpler way in the mu-referencing framework to link different thetas to the same omega element? All the best, Jacob ________________________________ Confidentiality Notice: This message is private and may contain confidential and proprietary information. If you have received this message in error, please notify us and remove it from your system and note that you must not copy, distribute or take any action in reliance on it. Any unauthorized use or disclosure of the contents of this message is not permitted and may be unlawful.
This looks like it would work - it seems to obey the rules around mu-referencing. You can simplify the $OMEGA by using SAME(3) Mike Michael J. Fossler, Pharm. D., Ph. D., F.C.P. VP, Quantitative Sciences Trevena, Inc [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Office: 610-354-8840, ext. 249 Cell: 610-329-6636
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From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Leander, Jacob Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2016 7:01 AM To: [email protected] Subject: [NMusers] Link different thetas to same omega using mu referencing Hi Consider the case where we have a categorical (potentially time-varying) covariate named CAT that can take several values (e.g. 0,1,2,3). Let's say I want to model CL depending on this categorical covariate (where parameters are estimated on log-scale). A simple solution to this would be IF(CAT.EQ.1) TVCL = THETA(1) IF(CAT.EQ.2) TVCL = THETA(2) IF(CAT.EQ.3) TVCL = THETA(3) I let CL be described by a log-normal distribution with the same omega element for all CAT values. CL = EXP(TVCL + ETA(1)) With an omega statement: $OMEGA 0.1 I now want to switch to the mu referencing framework in NONMEM. Each theta needs to be reference to a MU value, and to force it to be described by the same eta I apply the following approach. MU_1 = THETA(1) MU_2 = THETA(2) MU_3 = THETA(3) IF(CAT.EQ.1) CL = EXP(MU_1 + ETA(1)) IF(CAT.EQ.2) CL = EXP(MU_2 + ETA(2)) IF(CAT.EQ.3) CL = EXP(MU_3 + ETA(3)) With an omega statement: $OMEGA BLOCK(1) 0.1 $OMEGA BLOCK(1) SAME $OMEGA BLOCK(1) SAME where I force the omega element corresponding to ETA1, ETA2 and ETA3 to be the same. Is this a valid approach to obtain what I need? Or is there a simpler way in the mu-referencing framework to link different thetas to the same omega element? All the best, Jacob ________________________________ Confidentiality Notice: This message is private and may contain confidential and proprietary information. If you have received this message in error, please notify us and remove it from your system and note that you must not copy, distribute or take any action in reliance on it. Any unauthorized use or disclosure of the contents of this message is not permitted and may be unlawful. ________________________________ Notice: This e-mail message, together with any attachments, contains information of Trevena, Inc., 1018 West 8th Avenue, King of Prussia, PA 19406, USA. This information may be confidential, proprietary, copyrighted and/or legally privileged. It is intended solely for use by the individual or entity named on this message. If you are not the intended recipient, and have received this message in error, please notify us immediately and delete it and any attachments from your system.
Hi Jacob, I suggest: CAT1=0 CAT2=0 CAT3=0 IF(CAT.EQ.1) CAT1=1 IF(CAT.EQ.2) CAT2=1 IF(CAT.EQ.3) CAT3=1 MU_1 = CAT1*THETA(1) + CAT2*THETA(2) + CAT3*THETA(3) CL = EXP(MU_1+ETA(1)) That way you have only one OMEGA. This could be more flexible when expanding OMEGA for additional IIV in block format. Cheers... Brian
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From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Michael Fossler Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2016 7:56 AM To: Leander, Jacob; [email protected] Subject: [NMusers] RE: Link different thetas to same omega using mu referencing This looks like it would work - it seems to obey the rules around mu-referencing. You can simplify the $OMEGA by using SAME(3) Mike Michael J. Fossler, Pharm. D., Ph. D., F.C.P. VP, Quantitative Sciences Trevena, Inc [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Office: 610-354-8840, ext. 249 Cell: 610-329-6636 From: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Leander, Jacob Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2016 7:01 AM To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Subject: [NMusers] Link different thetas to same omega using mu referencing Hi Consider the case where we have a categorical (potentially time-varying) covariate named CAT that can take several values (e.g. 0,1,2,3). Let's say I want to model CL depending on this categorical covariate (where parameters are estimated on log-scale). A simple solution to this would be IF(CAT.EQ.1) TVCL = THETA(1) IF(CAT.EQ.2) TVCL = THETA(2) IF(CAT.EQ.3) TVCL = THETA(3) I let CL be described by a log-normal distribution with the same omega element for all CAT values. CL = EXP(TVCL + ETA(1)) With an omega statement: $OMEGA 0.1 I now want to switch to the mu referencing framework in NONMEM. Each theta needs to be reference to a MU value, and to force it to be described by the same eta I apply the following approach. MU_1 = THETA(1) MU_2 = THETA(2) MU_3 = THETA(3) IF(CAT.EQ.1) CL = EXP(MU_1 + ETA(1)) IF(CAT.EQ.2) CL = EXP(MU_2 + ETA(2)) IF(CAT.EQ.3) CL = EXP(MU_3 + ETA(3)) With an omega statement: $OMEGA BLOCK(1) 0.1 $OMEGA BLOCK(1) SAME $OMEGA BLOCK(1) SAME where I force the omega element corresponding to ETA1, ETA2 and ETA3 to be the same. Is this a valid approach to obtain what I need? Or is there a simpler way in the mu-referencing framework to link different thetas to the same omega element? All the best, Jacob ________________________________ Confidentiality Notice: This message is private and may contain confidential and proprietary information. If you have received this message in error, please notify us and remove it from your system and note that you must not copy, distribute or take any action in reliance on it. Any unauthorized use or disclosure of the contents of this message is not permitted and may be unlawful. ________________________________ Notice: This e-mail message, together with any attachments, contains information of Trevena, Inc., 1018 West 8th Avenue, King of Prussia, PA 19406, USA. This information may be confidential, proprietary, copyrighted and/or legally privileged. It is intended solely for use by the individual or entity named on this message. If you are not the intended recipient, and have received this message in error, please notify us immediately and delete it and any attachments from your system.
I’m not sure that Brian’s suggestion is acceptable due to the following constraint I quote from one of the NONMEM manuals: “Time dependent covariates cannot be part of the MU_ equation” If CAT is time-varying (as suggested by Jacob) then “MU_1 = CAT1*THETA(1) + CAT2*THETA(2) + CAT3*THETA(3)” includes time dependent covariates. Rather worryingly, I don’t think NONMEM will trap this problem since I have fallen foul of it with no resulting NONMEM warnings, and I have no idea what the consequences are for the resulting NONMEM run and results. Rupert Rupert Austin, PhD Senior Scientist BAST Inc Limited Loughborough University Science and Enterprise Park Charnwood Wing Holywell Park Ashby Road Loughborough, LE11 3AQ, UK Tel: +44 (0)1509 222908
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From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Sadler, Brian Sent: 13 April 2016 13:26 To: [email protected] Subject: [NMusers] RE: Link different thetas to same omega using mu referencing Hi Jacob, I suggest: CAT1=0 CAT2=0 CAT3=0 IF(CAT.EQ.1) CAT1=1 IF(CAT.EQ.2) CAT2=1 IF(CAT.EQ.3) CAT3=1 MU_1 = CAT1*THETA(1) + CAT2*THETA(2) + CAT3*THETA(3) CL = EXP(MU_1+ETA(1)) That way you have only one OMEGA. This could be more flexible when expanding OMEGA for additional IIV in block format. Cheers… Brian From: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Michael Fossler Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2016 7:56 AM To: Leander, Jacob; [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> Subject: [NMusers] RE: Link different thetas to same omega using mu referencing This looks like it would work – it seems to obey the rules around mu-referencing. You can simplify the $OMEGA by using SAME(3) Mike Michael J. Fossler, Pharm. D., Ph. D., F.C.P. VP, Quantitative Sciences Trevena, Inc <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected] Office: 610-354-8840, ext. 249 Cell: 610-329-6636 From: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Leander, Jacob Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2016 7:01 AM To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> Subject: [NMusers] Link different thetas to same omega using mu referencing Hi Consider the case where we have a categorical (potentially time-varying) covariate named CAT that can take several values (e.g. 0,1,2,3). Let’s say I want to model CL depending on this categorical covariate (where parameters are estimated on log-scale). A simple solution to this would be IF(CAT.EQ.1) TVCL = THETA(1) IF(CAT.EQ.2) TVCL = THETA(2) IF(CAT.EQ.3) TVCL = THETA(3) I let CL be described by a log-normal distribution with the same omega element for all CAT values. CL = EXP(TVCL + ETA(1)) With an omega statement: $OMEGA 0.1 I now want to switch to the mu referencing framework in NONMEM. Each theta needs to be reference to a MU value, and to force it to be described by the same eta I apply the following approach. MU_1 = THETA(1) MU_2 = THETA(2) MU_3 = THETA(3) IF(CAT.EQ.1) CL = EXP(MU_1 + ETA(1)) IF(CAT.EQ.2) CL = EXP(MU_2 + ETA(2)) IF(CAT.EQ.3) CL = EXP(MU_3 + ETA(3)) With an omega statement: $OMEGA BLOCK(1) 0.1 $OMEGA BLOCK(1) SAME $OMEGA BLOCK(1) SAME where I force the omega element corresponding to ETA1, ETA2 and ETA3 to be the same. Is this a valid approach to obtain what I need? Or is there a simpler way in the mu-referencing framework to link different thetas to the same omega element? All the best, Jacob _____ Confidentiality Notice: This message is private and may contain confidential and proprietary information. If you have received this message in error, please notify us and remove it from your system and note that you must not copy, distribute or take any action in reliance on it. Any unauthorized use or disclosure of the contents of this message is not permitted and may be unlawful. _____ Notice: This e-mail message, together with any attachments, contains information of Trevena, Inc., 1018 West 8th Avenue, King of Prussia, PA 19406, USA. This information may be confidential, proprietary, copyrighted and/or legally privileged. It is intended solely for use by the individual or entity named on this message. If you are not the intended recipient, and have received this message in error, please notify us immediately and delete it and any attachments from your system.
Rupert, I believe at least in principle you are right (I am not sure of the specifics for NONMEM but I am generally familiar with the implementation challenges that time varying covariates pose for EM methods. ) The basic problem is that mu-modeling works to speed up EM methods because the EM update step can be reduced to a simple linear regression that is very fast. This cannot be done in the time varying case, so a much more computationally intensive update must be used. If the regression is done anyway in the time varying case, the results are not necessarily correct.
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From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Rupert Austin Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2016 11:44 AM To: 'Sadler, Brian'; [email protected] Subject: RE: [NMusers] RE: Link different thetas to same omega using mu referencing I’m not sure that Brian’s suggestion is acceptable due to the following constraint I quote from one of the NONMEM manuals: “Time dependent covariates cannot be part of the MU_ equation” If CAT is time-varying (as suggested by Jacob) then “MU_1 = CAT1*THETA(1) + CAT2*THETA(2) + CAT3*THETA(3)” includes time dependent covariates. Rather worryingly, I don’t think NONMEM will trap this problem since I have fallen foul of it with no resulting NONMEM warnings, and I have no idea what the consequences are for the resulting NONMEM run and results. Rupert Rupert Austin, PhD Senior Scientist BAST Inc Limited Loughborough University Science and Enterprise Park Charnwood Wing Holywell Park Ashby Road Loughborough, LE11 3AQ, UK Tel: +44 (0)1509 222908 From: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Sadler, Brian Sent: 13 April 2016 13:26 To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Subject: [NMusers] RE: Link different thetas to same omega using mu referencing Hi Jacob, I suggest: CAT1=0 CAT2=0 CAT3=0 IF(CAT.EQ.1) CAT1=1 IF(CAT.EQ.2) CAT2=1 IF(CAT.EQ.3) CAT3=1 MU_1 = CAT1*THETA(1) + CAT2*THETA(2) + CAT3*THETA(3) CL = EXP(MU_1+ETA(1)) That way you have only one OMEGA. This could be more flexible when expanding OMEGA for additional IIV in block format. Cheers… Brian From: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Michael Fossler Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2016 7:56 AM To: Leander, Jacob; [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Subject: [NMusers] RE: Link different thetas to same omega using mu referencing This looks like it would work – it seems to obey the rules around mu-referencing. You can simplify the $OMEGA by using SAME(3) Mike Michael J. Fossler, Pharm. D., Ph. D., F.C.P. VP, Quantitative Sciences Trevena, Inc [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Office: 610-354-8840, ext. 249 Cell: 610-329-6636 From: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Leander, Jacob Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2016 7:01 AM To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Subject: [NMusers] Link different thetas to same omega using mu referencing Hi Consider the case where we have a categorical (potentially time-varying) covariate named CAT that can take several values (e.g. 0,1,2,3). Let’s say I want to model CL depending on this categorical covariate (where parameters are estimated on log-scale). A simple solution to this would be IF(CAT.EQ.1) TVCL = THETA(1) IF(CAT.EQ.2) TVCL = THETA(2) IF(CAT.EQ.3) TVCL = THETA(3) I let CL be described by a log-normal distribution with the same omega element for all CAT values. CL = EXP(TVCL + ETA(1)) With an omega statement: $OMEGA 0.1 I now want to switch to the mu referencing framework in NONMEM. Each theta needs to be reference to a MU value, and to force it to be described by the same eta I apply the following approach. MU_1 = THETA(1) MU_2 = THETA(2) MU_3 = THETA(3) IF(CAT.EQ.1) CL = EXP(MU_1 + ETA(1)) IF(CAT.EQ.2) CL = EXP(MU_2 + ETA(2)) IF(CAT.EQ.3) CL = EXP(MU_3 + ETA(3)) With an omega statement: $OMEGA BLOCK(1) 0.1 $OMEGA BLOCK(1) SAME $OMEGA BLOCK(1) SAME where I force the omega element corresponding to ETA1, ETA2 and ETA3 to be the same. Is this a valid approach to obtain what I need? Or is there a simpler way in the mu-referencing framework to link different thetas to the same omega element? All the best, Jacob ________________________________ Confidentiality Notice: This message is private and may contain confidential and proprietary information. If you have received this message in error, please notify us and remove it from your system and note that you must not copy, distribute or take any action in reliance on it. Any unauthorized use or disclosure of the contents of this message is not permitted and may be unlawful. ________________________________ Notice: This e-mail message, together with any attachments, contains information of Trevena, Inc., 1018 West 8th Avenue, King of Prussia, PA 19406, USA. This information may be confidential, proprietary, copyrighted and/or legally privileged. It is intended solely for use by the individual or entity named on this message. If you are not the intended recipient, and have received this message in error, please notify us immediately and delete it and any attachments from your system.
I think the following code should work: IF(CAT.EQ.1) CLCOV = THETA(1)IF(CAT.EQ.2) CLCOV = THETA(2)IF(CAT.EQ.3) CLCOV = THETA(3)MU_1 = THETA(4) CL = EXP(MU_1+ETA(1))*(1+CLCOV) $OMEGA BLOCK(1) 0.1 Mannie
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From: Rupert Austin <[email protected]> To: "'Sadler, Brian'" <[email protected]>; [email protected] Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2016 11:44 AM Subject: RE: [NMusers] RE: Link different thetas to same omega using mu referencing #yiv7090570546 #yiv7090570546 -- _filtered #yiv7090570546 {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv7090570546 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv7090570546 {font-family:Tahoma;panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}#yiv7090570546 #yiv7090570546 p.yiv7090570546MsoNormal, #yiv7090570546 li.yiv7090570546MsoNormal, #yiv7090570546 div.yiv7090570546MsoNormal {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:11.0pt;}#yiv7090570546 a:link, #yiv7090570546 span.yiv7090570546MsoHyperlink {color:#0563C1;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv7090570546 a:visited, #yiv7090570546 span.yiv7090570546MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:#954F72;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv7090570546 p.yiv7090570546MsoAcetate, #yiv7090570546 li.yiv7090570546MsoAcetate, #yiv7090570546 div.yiv7090570546MsoAcetate {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:8.0pt;}#yiv7090570546 span.yiv7090570546BalloonTextChar {}#yiv7090570546 span.yiv7090570546EmailStyle19 {color:windowtext;}#yiv7090570546 span.yiv7090570546EmailStyle20 {color:#1F497D;}#yiv7090570546 span.yiv7090570546EmailStyle21 {color:#1F497D;}#yiv7090570546 span.yiv7090570546EmailStyle23 {color:#1F497D;}#yiv7090570546 .yiv7090570546MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;} _filtered #yiv7090570546 {margin:70.85pt 70.85pt 70.85pt 70.85pt;}#yiv7090570546 div.yiv7090570546WordSection1 {}#yiv7090570546 I’m not sure that Brian’s suggestion is acceptable due to the following constraint I quote from one of the NONMEM manuals: “Time dependent covariates cannot be part of the MU_ equation” If CAT is time-varying (as suggested by Jacob) then “MU_1 = CAT1*THETA(1) + CAT2*THETA(2) + CAT3*THETA(3)” includes time dependent covariates. Rather worryingly, I don’t think NONMEM will trap this problem since I have fallen foul of it with no resulting NONMEM warnings, and I have no idea what the consequences are for the resulting NONMEM run and results. Rupert Rupert Austin, PhDSenior ScientistBAST Inc LimitedLoughborough University Science and Enterprise ParkCharnwood WingHolywell ParkAshby RoadLoughborough, LE11 3AQ, UKTel: +44 (0)1509 222908 From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Sadler, Brian Sent: 13 April 2016 13:26 To: [email protected] Subject: [NMusers] RE: Link different thetas to same omega using mu referencing Hi Jacob, I suggest:CAT1=0CAT2=0CAT3=0IF(CAT.EQ.1) CAT1=1IF(CAT.EQ.2) CAT2=1IF(CAT.EQ.3) CAT3=1MU_1 = CAT1*THETA(1) + CAT2*THETA(2) + CAT3*THETA(3)CL = EXP(MU_1+ETA(1)) That way you have only one OMEGA. This could be more flexible when expanding OMEGA for additional IIV in block format. Cheers… Brian From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Michael Fossler Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2016 7:56 AM To: Leander, Jacob; [email protected] Subject: [NMusers] RE: Link different thetas to same omega using mu referencing This looks like it would work – it seems to obey the rules around mu-referencing. You can simplify the $OMEGA by using SAME(3) MikeMichael J. Fossler, Pharm. D., Ph. D., F.C.P.VP, Quantitative SciencesTrevena, [email protected]: 610-354-8840, ext. 249Cell: 610-329-6636 From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Leander, Jacob Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2016 7:01 AM To: [email protected] Subject: [NMusers] Link different thetas to same omega using mu referencing Hi Consider the case where we have a categorical (potentially time-varying) covariate named CAT that can take several values (e.g. 0,1,2,3).Let’s say I want to model CL depending on this categorical covariate (where parameters are estimated on log-scale). A simple solution to this would be IF(CAT.EQ.1) TVCL = THETA(1)IF(CAT.EQ.2) TVCL = THETA(2)IF(CAT.EQ.3) TVCL = THETA(3) I let CL be described by a log-normal distribution with the same omega element for all CAT values. CL = EXP(TVCL + ETA(1)) With an omega statement: $OMEGA 0.1 I now want to switch to the mu referencing framework in NONMEM. Each theta needs to be reference to a MU value, and to force it to be described by the same eta I apply the following approach. MU_1 = THETA(1)MU_2 = THETA(2)MU_3 = THETA(3) IF(CAT.EQ.1) CL = EXP(MU_1 + ETA(1))IF(CAT.EQ.2) CL = EXP(MU_2 + ETA(2))IF(CAT.EQ.3) CL = EXP(MU_3 + ETA(3)) With an omega statement: $OMEGA BLOCK(1) 0.1$OMEGA BLOCK(1) SAME$OMEGA BLOCK(1) SAME where I force the omega element corresponding to ETA1, ETA2 and ETA3 to be the same. Is this a valid approach to obtain what I need? Or is there a simpler way in the mu-referencing framework to link different thetas to the same omega element? All the best,Jacob Confidentiality Notice: This message is private and may contain confidential and proprietary information. If you have received this message in error, please notify us and remove it from your system and note that you must not copy, distribute or take any action in reliance on it. Any unauthorized use or disclosure of the contents of this message is not permitted and may be unlawful. Notice: This e-mail message, together with any attachments, contains information of Trevena, Inc., 1018 West 8th Avenue, King of Prussia, PA 19406, USA. This information may be confidential, proprietary, copyrighted and/or legally privileged. It is intended solely for use by the individual or entity named on this message. If you are not the intended recipient, and have received this message in error, please notify us immediately and delete it and any attachments from your system.
Thanks. You’re right. With my solution the eta is not constant for an individual, instead it will vary for each value of the categorical covariate, meaning that it is similar to IOV. With your solution we restrict only one eta per individual not matter of the covariate value. To exemplify this discussion one can think of two different oral formulations with different absorption rate that are given in sequence. The question is then if we would expect that a person who has “higher than normal” absorption rate for the first formulation also would have a “higher than normal” absorption rate for the second formulation. If the answer to that question is yes then one should impose the restriction that you described. //Jacob
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From: Emmanuel Chigutsa [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: den 13 april 2016 22:47 To: Leander, Jacob <[email protected]>; [email protected]; 'Sadler, Brian' <[email protected]>; [email protected] Subject: Re: [NMusers] RE: Link different thetas to same omega using mu referencing Hi Jacob, Yes, THETA(4) would represent the typical value (before exponentiation). In summary, writing your covariate code after the definition of MU should circumvent the time-varying problem. If you want everything on a log scale you could try: OCL=MU_1+ETA(1) CL=EXP(OCL+CLCOV) The issue with trying to use different etas for the different thetas as you had was that only the variance (omega) was constrained to be same, but not necessarily the same eta for each ID. Mannie ________________________________ From: "Leander, Jacob" <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> To: Emmanuel Chigutsa <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>; "[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>" <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>; "'Sadler, Brian'" <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>; "[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>" <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2016 2:00 PM Subject: RE: [NMusers] RE: Link different thetas to same omega using mu referencing Thanks for the answers. Just as Rupert pointed out it is not possible to model time-dependent covariates in the MU expression. I am not sure what is happening if you do but since the NONMEM manual explicitly tell you to avoid it you should not do it. It seems that Mannies code instead uses a THETA(4) to model the “mean” value and then use CLCOV to change the value for different covariates. Or what does THETA(4) mean in your code Mannie? Remember that the problems was to impose same omega element for different thetas depending on time-varying covariate and also estimate all the parameters on a log scale. //Jacob From: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Emmanuel Chigutsa Sent: den 13 april 2016 19:01 To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>; 'Sadler, Brian' <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>; [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Subject: Re: [NMusers] RE: Link different thetas to same omega using mu referencing I think the following code should work: IF(CAT.EQ.1) CLCOV = THETA(1) IF(CAT.EQ.2) CLCOV = THETA(2) IF(CAT.EQ.3) CLCOV = THETA(3) MU_1 = THETA(4) CL = EXP(MU_1+ETA(1))*(1+CLCOV) $OMEGA BLOCK(1) 0.1 Mannie ________________________________ Confidentiality Notice: This message is private and may contain confidential and proprietary information. If you have received this message in error, please notify us and remove it from your system and note that you must not copy, distribute or take any action in reliance on it. Any unauthorized use or disclosure of the contents of this message is not permitted and may be unlawful.