RE: flip-flop without absorption information?

From: Doug J. Eleveld Date: September 13, 2022 technical Source: mail-archive.com
Hi Jakob and Everyone, In the no-covariate case flip and flop 😊 represent equal likelihoods i.e. two local minimums of equal depth. I agree that distributional assumptions would likely be useful to discriminate between two different parameters values that have equal likelihoods. Depending on how much information is contained in the covariate then minimum might “shift” so that one becomes the global minimum and the other a local minimum. But one should be aware that local minimums could be present and influence NONMEM estimation. Warm regards, Douglas
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Van: [email protected] <[email protected]> Namens Jakob Ribbing Verzonden: dinsdag 13 september 2022 06:23 Aan: Niurys.CS <[email protected]>; nmusers <[email protected]> Onderwerp: Re: [NMusers] flip-flop without absorption information? Dear Niurys, It would be down to distributional assumptions in that case. For example if you have a very strong predictor (covariate) of either elimination or absorption rate (but not both) - data could be informative to discriminate between flip-flop or not. Had your therapeutic been IgG monoclonal antibody, albumin wold have been a predictor of the absolute CL that with a larger number of subjects may allow to discriminate (especially if a mix of both healthy, and patients with higher inflammation level and thereby lower albumin -> higher CL). On the other hand, for example body weight would not be helpful in this regard. Even if body weight would have an effect on CL and V, it would not have a major impact on terminal elimination (and in addition one could have a concern on body weight also affecting the absorption rate). So you would need both the mechanistic knowledge on the covariate, for your therapeutic peptide in the RA population, and it would need to be a strong effect in sufficient number of subjects. On such obvious covariate would be different routes of administration, where nobody would question the mechanistic knowledge on that SC has a slower absorption that IV :>) In liu of IV dosing this becomes a more challenging task, however. Best wishes Jakob On 13 Sep 2022, at 05:05, Niurys.CS <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: Niurys This communication is confidential and is only intended for the use of the individual or entity to which it is directed. It may contain information that is privileged and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient please notify us immediately. Please do not copy it or disclose its contents to any other person. Any personal data will be processed in accordance with Pharmetheus' privacy notice, available https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpharmetheus.com%2Fprivacy-policy%2F&data=05%7C01%7Cd.j.eleveld%40umcg.nl%7Cd9d9d66771e044080b8908da9540f3ac%7C335122f9d4f44d67a2fccd6dc20dde70%7C0%7C0%7C637986403439146794%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Va6LIYK0s9Pkvv4AL9e%2FQ0dxdVwOgUBaSFhsU81dTAY%3D&reserved=0. ________________________________
Sep 13, 2022 Niurys de Castro Suárez flip-flop without absorption information?
Sep 13, 2022 Jakob Ribbing Re: flip-flop without absorption information?
Sep 13, 2022 Shan Pan Re: flip-flop without absorption information?
Sep 13, 2022 Wilbert de Witte Re: flip-flop without absorption information?
Sep 13, 2022 Doug J. Eleveld RE: flip-flop without absorption information?
Sep 13, 2022 Peter Bonate RE: flip-flop without absorption information?
Sep 13, 2022 Leonid Gibiansky Re: flip-flop without absorption information?
Sep 20, 2022 Niurys de Castro Suárez Re: flip-flop without absorption information?