Re: [Suggest] NONMEM adds UTF-8 support for csv files

On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 12:04 AM Mark Tepeck <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi Joe and Sebastien, > > > Thank you for your feedback. Microsoft software is surely not my favorite > platform; However, I have to stick with MS due to the policy for the > organization computer I use. > > > I agree with Sebastien that there are some easy workarounds. It is indeed > easy on an individual basis, but it can be substantial efforts if > accumulated for all NONMEM users. NONMEM has more than a decade history; > why couldn’t it be made more robust, versatile and user-friendly? > > > Even if the new feature requested doesn’t benefit every end-user > immediately, it might be useful one day. UFT-8 BOM csv files are widely > supported by csv viewers, which speaks for their value in some scenarios. > Why couldn’t it be supported by NONMEM as well? The most successful > software are typically those constantly evolving and adapting to meet users > rather than those ignoring users feedback and calling them to make an > adaption. > > > Best, > > > Mark > > On Tue, Jun 5, 2018 at 9:44 AM, STANDING, Joseph (GREAT ORMOND STREET > HOSPITAL FOR CHILDREN NHS FOUNDATION TRUST) <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> Dear Mark, >> >> Here is another workaround: abandon the use of Microsoft Excel (and all >> possible Microsoft products) since this behaviour - new "improved" version >> that you paid for - actually makes your life harder. I have also >> encountered problems with Excel helpfully changing date format or time >> zones without being asked - great of you are collating data recorded in >> different time zones. If you must visualise your data in a spreadsheet >> just use libre office, or some other open source solution, but in general >> all data manipulations should be done in R not in a spreadsheet, so any >> changes to the data are traceable. >> >> About 5 years ago I wiped Windows, installed Linux, and have never looked >> back. RStudio, NONMEM, LaTex and all sensible software work just the same, >> yet your computer now lasts much longer and runs faster because it is not >> clogged up with inefficient operating system software. If you are >> submitting to one of those backward journals that does not provide a LaTex >> template, simply write your paper in Rmarkdown and output as a Word doc >> (equations even come out OK these days). >> >> Much of the above goes for Mac operating system too unfortunately. >> Upgrade the operating system and NONMEM stops working, students have had >> terrible problems. If you must have a Mac because you like paying twice >> the price for a metal case, wipe the operating system and put linux on. I >> can highly recommend Lubuntu. >> >> BW, >> >> Joe >> >> >> >> >> >> ________________________________________ >> From: [email protected] [[email protected]] on >> behalf of Sebastien Bihorel [[email protected]] >> Sent: 04 June 2018 14:04 >> To: Mark Tepeck >> Cc: [email protected] >> Subject: Re: [NMusers] [Suggest] NONMEM adds UTF-8 support for csv files >> >> Hi, >> >> Two things: >> - NONMEM does not require ID to be the first variable in $INPUT >> - the headers of your csv file do not have to match the variable names >> used in $INPUT >> >> So you have 2 easy workarounds for your issue: >> - as previously pointed out, you can use another first variable... a >> deletion flag variable or a study variable are as good candidates as ID for >> the 1st column of your data. >> - rename your ID variable as NMID in your csv file (or any alphanumeric >> combo that do not start with ID for that matter) >> >> Sebastien >> >> ________________________________ >> From: "Mark Tepeck" <[email protected]> >> To: "Nick Holford" <[email protected]>, [email protected] >> Sent: Monday, June 4, 2018 7:52:28 AM >> Subject: Re: [NMusers] [Suggest] NONMEM adds UTF-8 support for csv files >> >> Hi All, >> >> Unfortunately, the latest release of MS Excel 2017 (build 9330.2087 for >> office 365) becomes more restrictive on SYLK files, which is apparently a >> step-back update, but really a typical Microsoft behavior ☹. Even you agree >> to continue with the warning messages, the latest Excel will end up with a >> blank sheet. Using #ID is a practical workaround for this situation but >> definitely not the most intuitive one. On the other hand, even most NONMEM >> users are already used to some ‘tricks’, this issue still costs unnecessary >> efforts and deepens the learning curve for NONMEM newbies. Personally, it >> is surprising to see a well-maintained software lack support for UTF-8 csv >> files, which are now well supported by all major csv viewers, e.g. >> Editpad, Notepad++, open office, MS office. If this is a small fix for >> NONMEM, I sincerely hope that it could become true. This feature might >> potentially streamline NONMEM runs without adding # , as well as make >> NONMEM learning more fun. >> >> Thank you, >> >> Mark >> >> On Mon, Jun 4, 2018 at 1:15 AM, Nick Holford <[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >> Hi, >> Excel can open files with ID as the first column header. You just have to >> agree to continue when Excel shows its warning messages. >> Personally I use #ID as the first column header which avoids the Excel >> warnings and also means I don’t need to specify an IGNORE character in >> NM-TRAN because # is the default. >> Best wishes, >> Nick >> >> -- >> Nick Holford, Professor Clinical Pharmacology >> Dept Pharmacology & Clinical Pharmacology, Bldg 503 Room 302A >> University of Auckland,85 Park Rd >> https://maps.google.com/?q=Auckland,85+Park+Rd&entry=gmail&source=g< >> https://maps.google.com/?q=85+Park+Rd&entry=gmail&source=g>,Private Bag >> 92019,Auckland,New Zealand >> office:+64(9)923-6730 <+64%209-923%206730> mobile:NZ+64(21)46 23 53 >> FR+33(6)62 >> 32 46 72 <+33%206%2062%2032%2046%2072> >> email: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> >> http://holford.fmhs.auckland.ac.nz/ >> http://orcid.org/0000-0002-4031-2514 >> Read the question, answer the question, attempt all questions >> >> From: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> < >> [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> On >> Behalf Of HUI, Ka Ho >> Sent: Monday, June 4, 2018 4:48 AM >> To: Mark Tepeck <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>; >> [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> >> Subject: [FORGED] [NMusers] 回覆: [NMusers] [Suggest] NONMEM adds UTF-8 >> support for csv files >> >> Dear Mark >> >> Does it work if you don't put "ID" as the first column? Back to the days >> when I frequently used Excel, this had been the solution for me. >> >> Matthew >> >> ------ 原有訊息------ >> 寄件者： Mark Tepeck >> 日期: 2018年6月4日週一 10:41 >> 收件者： [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>; >> 副本： >> 主旨：[NMusers] [Suggest] NONMEM adds UTF-8 support for csv files >> >> Hi NONMEM Users, >> >> As a PK scientist, I often manipulate csv files with Microsoft Excel, R, >> and NONMEM. As some of you may have seen, if the first record in a csv file >> is a string “ID”, Microsoft Excel would mistake it as an SYLK file which >> cannot be opened normally by Excel. One workaround is to use any strings >> other than ID, e.g. id, '‘ID’. However, this may cause new problems in some >> scenarios. Another potential solution is to use the R function >> readr::write_excel_csv ('dataframe.csv') to output a csv file with UTF-8 >> Byte order mark. Unfortunately, this csv file turned out to become >> unreadable for NONMEM although Excel likes it. Since waiting for bug fixing >> of Excel by Microsoft is not optimistic, I would truly appreciate it if >> NONMEM can add UTF-8 support. >> >> Thank you, >> >> Mark Tepeck >> >> >> >> >> ******************************************************************************************************************** >> >> This message may contain confidential information. If you are not the >> intended recipient please inform the >> sender that you have received the message in error before deleting it. >> Please do not disclose, copy or distribute information in this e-mail or >> take any action in relation to its contents. To do so is strictly >> prohibited and may be unlawful. Thank you for your co-operation. >> >> NHSmail is the secure email and directory service available for all NHS >> staff in England and Scotland. 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