Re: Choice of models

From: Jan-Stefan van der Walt Date: January 24, 2012 technical Source: mail-archive.com
Hi Toufigh, Recently I used the 90% prediction interval (generated by an appropriately binned VPC) of the rich data (three studies with observed doses) to evaluate the sparse data (one sample on 4 occasions). The sparse data contained more information about the covariates of interest, but the dosing was unobserved. I analysed the rich and sparse data simultaneously first including and then excluding the sparse data outside the 90% PI and compared the results. The eta-shrinkage values decreased considerably when the observations outside the 90% PI were excluded and I had more confidence in the covariate relationships. As a side issue, I estimated a time-after-dose for the observations outside the 90% PI. It was interesting that the difference between the reported and estimated dosing times seemed to increase as the trial progressed (0.92h [month 6], 1.05h [month 12]), 1.11h [month 18] and 3.6h [month 24]. Hope this helps. Regards, Jan-Stefan
Quoted reply history
On 24 January 2012 05:05, Denney, William S. <[email protected]>wrote: > Hi Toufigh, > > I typically think that data quality decreases with phase and with sampling > frequency. Given what you described below, I'd think that you're fighting > data quality in the sparse, phase 3 studies, and with the parameters you're > describing as having trouble, it seems to support that thought. Were I to > guess, you could probably pick out the most influential 3% of sparse > samples (arbitrary percentage), and look at them in more detail and find > that they look more like Cmax than Ctrough or something such the time since > last dose appears to be off. > > Beyond that, philosophically, I think that trough concentrations should > not be allowed to affect Ka because the effect is usually so small as not > to be measurable (assuming that we're discussing a drug with a reasonable > separation between the alpha elimination phase and measurement time). > > Thanks, > > Bill > > On Jan 23, 2012, at 11:45 PM, "Toufigh Gordi" <[email protected]> > wrote: > > Dear all,**** > > ** ** > > I have a general question on the choice of model in a population analysis. > I have a set of data set that includes a large number of studies with about > ¾ of the data from extensive sampling schemes (phase 1, 2, and 3 studies) > and the rest from sparse samples (phase 3 clinical studies). When > developing the PK model, a model on the extensive samples only fits the > data well and I can get quite reasonable parameter estimates, including > covariate effects, and a successful $COV (NONMEM). When all data is used, > the model becomes somewhat instable: the same covariates are identified but > the model becomes quite sensitive to the initial estimates and the $COV > step won’t go through. I could, of course, perform a bootstrap to go around > this issue. In general, the fit of the model based on the full data set is > not as good as the extensive data set model, although the two models are > rather similar with regard to the parameter estimates. However, the range > of estimated parameters is wider when using all data and noticeably KA and > V2 are skewed to very larger values.**** > > ** ** > > Moving forward, I could either use the full data model and simulate steady > state profiles for the phase 3 study (sparse samples) data. Or, I could use > the model based on the extensive samples only, use the sparse data and > generate post-hoc estimates for the sparsely sampled individuals and move > forward that way. The advantage with the first option is that all the > available data have been used in the modeling process. The disadvantage > would be that the model is not as good as the other model, with sparse data > distorting the parameter estimates. The advantage of the second option is > that the model performs better and there is really no reason why the > underlying PK model for the sparsely sampled subjects should be different, > which means one should be able to use that model to generate post-hoc > estimates. The disadvantage is that not all the available data have been > used in the model building process.**** > > ** ** > > It would be interesting to hear other people’s thoughts and ideas on this. > **** > > ** ** > > Toufigh **** > > -- *United Kingdom* Flat 5, 41 Devons Rd, E3 3BF, London +44 20 7987 6688 *(h) * +44 77 9618 4662 *(m)* *South Africa* Ballet & Lodge, 34 Kerk St, George, 6529 Postnet Suite 39, Private Bag, X6590, George, 6530 +27 44 884 1560 *(h)* *Sweden* Pharmacometrics, Department of Pharmaceutical Biosciences PO Box 591, SE-75124 Uppsala +46 73 066 7338 *(m)*
Jan 24, 2012 Toufigh Gordi Choice of models
Jan 24, 2012 Bill Denney Re: Choice of models
Jan 24, 2012 Jan-Stefan van der Walt Re: Choice of models
Jan 24, 2012 Jean Lavigne RE: Choice of models
Jan 24, 2012 Juan Jose Perez Ruixo RE: Choice of models
Jan 24, 2012 Doug J. Eleveld RE: Choice of models