RE: Unexpected influence of parameter order on estimation results

From: Bob Leary Date: June 23, 2010 technical Source: mail-archive.com
Both the BFGS optimization of the objective function in the $EST step and the inversion of the numerical Hessian matrix in the $COV step involve a Cholesky decomposition of a (hopefully) positive definite matrix whose rows and columns correspond to the individual parameters. If the order of the parameters is changed, the rows and columns of the matrix being decomposed are permuted. The Cholesky decomposition is numerically sensitive to such permutations since no pivoting is done in the standard implementations. This sensitivity is particularly acute if the matrix is poorly conditioned or, even worse, indefinite. So indeed it is to be expected that changing the order of the parameters will affect the results. For well conditioned problems, this effect is minimal. But it is quite possible, for example, that an $EST or $COV step that fails with one ordering will succeed with another.
Quoted reply history
________________________________ From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Sebastien Bihorel Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2010 9:53 AM To: Nick Holford Cc: [email protected] Subject: Re: [NMusers] Unexpected influence of parameter order on estimation results I am aware of the issues associated numerical representation in computer memory but I must say that it is more than a bit surprising (disturbing) that the order of the parameters results in these pseudo-random outcomes in NONMEM computations. As far as I know, this is not the case in R, despite the same issues of numerical representation. That being said, I don't want to re-start the old debate on the value of the covariance step, but some people would consider that the two versions of my model gave significantly different results, simply based upon the objective function (at least a 10-point difference) and the (lack of) success of the covariance step. Nick Holford wrote: Welcome to the world of 'real' numbers i.e. the limited representation of numbers in computer arithmetic that leads to unexpected (pseudo-random) results. Both versions of your model are giving the same answer. The apparent differences are due to pseudo-random chance. _________________________________________________________________
Jun 17, 2010 Sebastien Bihorel Unexpected influence of parameter order on estimation results
Jun 18, 2010 Sebastien . Bihorel Unexpected influence of parameter order on estimation results
Jun 18, 2010 Jeroen Elassaiss-Schaap RE: Unexpected influence of parameter order on estimation results
Jun 18, 2010 Jeroen Elassaiss-Schaap RE: Unexpected influence of parameter order on estimation results
Jun 18, 2010 Nick Holford Re: Unexpected influence of parameter order on estimation results
Jun 23, 2010 Sebastien Bihorel Re: Unexpected influence of parameter order on estimation results
Jun 23, 2010 Bob Leary RE: Unexpected influence of parameter order on estimation results
Jun 28, 2010 Sebastien Bihorel Re: Unexpected influence of parameter order on estimation results